Let's Work On It Together

Discussion in 'Rules Questions (YGO)' started by Digital Jedi, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    Alright Guys and Gals, Ladies and Gentlemen, Brothers and Sisters, Peoples and Peepettes. This is a very, very rough first draft of the Chain Flow Chart I've been wanting to work on for Yu-Gi-Oh! I think if we work together to iron out the kinks we can have, not just the only YGO Flow Chart ever made, but the most comprehensive and easy to understand.

    I'm also working on another chart explaining lingering effects and conditions, but I'm defaulting to novastar's expertise with that one. I'll post it here when we have a first draft worked up.

    Remember, this is a first draft, so I'm certain I may have missed some things or referred to things inaccurately. This is why I'm posting here, so that you guy can help me work out the kinks. Thanks.

    **Working on new chart***
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2008
  2. slither

    slither Alex (1981 - 2008)<br />Slithery When Wet

    What if an effect is triggered in between a resolving chain.
  3. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    That would be where the Mandatory and Optional Trigger Effects come into play an the left and right.
  4. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    I guess my Starting Point could be more comprehensive and/or clearer. And the Optional and Mandatory area' could be listed as _______ Effects Triggered During Chain.
  5. slither

    slither Alex (1981 - 2008)<br />Slithery When Wet

    IMPO it would be a little more clear, just for a full concept of it.
  6. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    So those areas should read:

    Mandatory Effects Triggered During Chain
    Optional Effects Triggered During Chain

    Now about my starting point. Is there a more general phrase we can place there? Or do we need a more inclusive terminology?
  7. Tkwiget

    Tkwiget Da Twiggy Man!

    I don't even know what a flow chart is. AH HA!

    The only thing I can't really understand is the "Resolve Last Unresolved Effect on Chain" part. Are you trying to mean like if Chain Link 5 is the last unresolved effect on the chain to resolve. Is that what you mean by that? So it's like how chain blocks resolve and such, right?
  8. EmeraldDragon

    EmeraldDragon Bringer of Doom

    Yeah it would be best if it read mandatory effects activated during chain resolution or some such term..

    Nice work by the way. Maybe if you just put the turn player in a red square and not a circle it should be easier for everyone to see straight away thats where to start and the segoc is where you finish.
  9. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    Right, you go that section right after a consecutive pass. You resolve the chain starting with the last effect on the chain that is unresolved. Then you'll notice the rotater arrow that says repeat until chain is empty. Could there be a better way to phrase that, while keeping the rotater arrow?
  10. EmeraldDragon

    EmeraldDragon Bringer of Doom

    Resolve last link added to the chain

    Repeat step until chain is finished
  11. Tkwiget

    Tkwiget Da Twiggy Man!

    I still can't really follow the chart. =/

    Consecutive pass..which is a resolution of priority passed between two players where no additional effects or chains are added?

    You really need to be more clear on this kind of stuff. Other wise this chart is going to be a waste of time when people can't undestand it without it being explained to them.

    Also this doesn't cover the game mechanics behind card effects that are resolving in a game phase rather than activating and resolving because they don't form chain blocks. <shrugs>
  12. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    The problem with "Resolve last link added to the chain" is that when you follow the circular arrow and come back to it, you've already resolved the last link "added" to the chain. What we we need to do with that center section makes certain that when it's exited and re-entered it still gives the proper instruction. When resolving one link on the chain, you would resolve the next as the last link "added" has already resolved.

    TK, are you sure your following the arrows when you read the chart? The chart is not going to help anyone who doesn't have a basic understanding of chains to begin with, and a flow chart requires you to know to follow the "flow" of the "chart" to understand it.

    If you you pass consecutively then the chain begins to resolve, right? The flow chart shows you where to go once certain decisions have been made and certain actions have occured. When you both players pass consecutively you move to chain resolution.

    I also mentioned in my first post, that I was working on a chart that did show the resolution of effects that activate and resolve outside of a chain block.
  13. slither

    slither Alex (1981 - 2008)<br />Slithery When Wet

    I just found a loop hole, when Turn Player/Non-Turn player have priority, according to the chart they can decide to pass forever, there can't be a return from Non-Turn Player priority back to Turn Player, you would have to make another node in order to evade the consecutive passing.
  14. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    That's what Consecutive Pass is for. Your forced down that route if you've been passed to consecutively.
  15. slither

    slither Alex (1981 - 2008)<br />Slithery When Wet

    No, no, I do understand that, I was just being technical =P.
  16. novastar

    novastar New Member

    My only sugestion would be to make it more linear, as that would be much easier to read and would give a more proper illustration of the Chain Block. Similar to what they have in the actual Rulebook, just more detailed.

    I'll give you some suggestions in a couple of days DJ.

    Somthing like:


    Of course that is very basic, i don't have to tools like this to properly do everything but thats the general gist of it.
  17. DarkLogicianOfCaos

    DarkLogicianOfCaos Eschew Obfuscation

    Hey, DJ. Love the chart! Great work, understand it completely. Now, would it be good to somehow give priority (pun intended) to the "manditory effects" square coming from your "Resolve Last Unresoled".... circle? Like put it on the left and the "optional effects" square on the right? Just a little thing, but it might detur some confusion for the novices.
  18. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    I've taken all these concerns to heart and am applying them to the chart. We must be careful that the chart doesn't become an example of chain, but rather an template for any chain.

    Slither, I can see where your coming from, and I believe that in the final draft, it would be beneficial to have some instructional blurbs off to the side. I'm color coding some things right now and will create a legend that shows when something is the action of the TP the opponent and the resolving effect on a chain.

    Nova, I think I understand what your getting at. Similar to what they have in the rule book with the arrows going in both directions, one for building the chain and the other for resolving it. That's sounds entirely possible. Let me know what you come up with.

    Logician, that's actually doable. I'll post a newer version of this here in a minute with that suggestion applied.

    I don't really like the way Word lays out these charts, but I don't have a functioning copy of Publisher at the moment and I'd probably opt for doing something more customized in Photoshop. We'll see. For the moment I'll use Word simply for the speed at which I can change things and move things around. Anyone know of a nicer chart building tool?
  19. DarkLogicianOfCaos

    DarkLogicianOfCaos Eschew Obfuscation

  20. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    Downloaded the trial version, which took a few hours and tested it some before I had to run around town doing errands all day. It's the reason I didn't post the Flow Chart like I promised. Looks like it has a simple learning curve, but I may not be able to practice it much before the trial time expires. I'm not sure I can justify buying the full version just yet.

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