Call ot Haunted and monster fd

Discussion in 'Rules Questions (YGO)' started by Dr Sin, Nov 25, 2005.

  1. Dr Sin

    Dr Sin New Member

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    Hi,

    I'm aware that if a monster with Call attached to it is turned fd by its own effect (Guardian Sphinx, Swarms etc) or by other card effect (Tsukuyomi, Book of Moon etc), Call remains on the field.
    But, is it still considered attached to the monster, or since the monster is fd now, Call remains on the field without effect?
    I was inclined to believe that it remains attached to the monster, even if it is turned fd. But I am not sure.

    Thanks in advance
  2. Maruno

    Maruno Council of Heroes Staff Member

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    [ycard="SD3-EN028"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] loses its target when the target is flipped face-down. Since [ycard="SD3-EN028"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] is a Continuous Trap Card, it remains face-up on the field meaninglessly. Then, if it is destroyed, the former target is not destroyed, and vice versa, even if the former target is flipped face-up again. Once it loses its target, it can never gain another one while it remains face-up on the field.
  3. miiaah

    miiaah New Member

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    Well, [ycard="SD3-EN028"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] do not become an equip card... And there are some trap cards that can be "attached" to facedown monsters (such as [ycard="SRL-EN006"]Spellbinding Circle[/ycard]).
  4. BenjaminMS

    BenjaminMS The Kozaky show

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    Also true...
    Or cards like [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard] :p
  5. Dr Sin

    Dr Sin New Member

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    Exactly the point that confuses me miiah.
    How can not be recognized that a continuous trap is attached to a monster, even if it is fd? I know all the "reset" issue, but, seriously, in this case this kind of explanation cannot satisfact me.
    It's recognized that it is a monster, and since you cannot "shuffle" fd monsters (exception to [ycard="DB1-EN043"]Cyber Jar[/ycard] special summons and any other special case), how can Call not target anymore, even if the monsters is now fd?
    I know it sounds idiot, but I just can't accept this right now, it's very confusing (at least for me).
    Sorry if I am bothering...
  6. John Danker

    John Danker Administrator

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    [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard] does not equip. itself to a monster, it simply continues to target it. This is why a monster can change from face up to face down or visa-versa and [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard] continues to target the monster.
  7. Tiso

    Tiso Calculative Duelist

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    Well given that it does not Equip, I would assume it still targets it. I know in the video games it still that it still targeted the monster (I know using the games is a bad referrence).
  8. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

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    [ycard="SD3-EN028"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard]
    Select 1 monster from your Graveyard and Special Summon it in face-up Attack Position. When this card is removed from the field, destroy the monster. When the monster is destroyed, destroy this card.

    Call only affects face-up monsters. Though the text is poorly worded, the rulings were made to clarify that it does. [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard], [ycard="SRL-EN006"]Spellbinding Circle[/ycard] and other continuous traps that target a monster do no specify a position. Call does.
  9. Tonylaudat

    Tonylaudat New Member

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    What rulings are you talking about? While call does say that the monster has to be special summoned in face up attack mode, how is this any indication that Call only affects face up monsters? The rest of the card makes no reference to what position the monster has to be in (if any) after it is special summoned? Are we supposed to assume that because call special summons a monster in face up attack position that it can not affect that monster if that mosnter is flipped face down?
  10. DaGuyWitBluGlasses

    DaGuyWitBluGlasses New Member

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    A judge list ruling ruled that call only affects face-up monster. Other than that i don't think there's a conclusive reason besides that's how [ycard="SD3-EN028"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] is supposed to work. So i wouldn't apply this ruling to other cards.
  11. Dr Sin

    Dr Sin New Member

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    All right, DaGuy. But, thinking about continuos trap cards, isn't that Call rule a bad extrapalation of Equip spell cards rules?
    What is the argument that confirms this rule?
    I believe that if, for example, a fd monster is attached with [ycard="DB1-EN006"]Spellbinding Circle[/ycard], then it's flipped with Tayou and later it's Boon of Moon'ed the SB continue to affect the monster, doesn't it? And even if the monster was face-up when he was choosen for SB effect, if it turns fd by an effect the SB still affects him.
    Now, yes, Call text says the monster is special summoned face-up, but why if it is turned fd Call doesn't affect it anymore?
    Call has restrictions, and I really don't see why these restrictions would not apply to a fd monster that was brought by Call. I mean, the monster was summoned by Call, and even if it's turned fd, the would be no way to not be recognized that the monster has a Call attached to it.
    Well, just my thoughts, and I'm just trying to understand.
  12. Tiso

    Tiso Calculative Duelist

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    Unless I am mistaken, the video games (I know bad example) had the card still attached unless I am remembering it wrong. [ycard="DB1-EN076"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] does not say it becomes an Equip Card, which leads me to believe none of the conditions for it to lose its target have been met to begin with.
  13. CardsOfTheHeart

    CardsOfTheHeart New Member

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    I haven't found any reason to believe that [ycard="SD4-EN027"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] is any different from [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard] in targeting its monster.

    If a monster targeted by [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard] is flipped f/d, [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard] still prevents the monster from changing its position and the damage is still being inflicted. If that f/d monster is removed from the field, say good-bye to [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard].

    If a monster targeted by [ycard="SD4-EN027"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] is flipped f/d, there's nothing that says that [ycard="SD4-EN027"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] would be destroyed nor is there anything that says that Call's target is lost.

    Speaking from experience with [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard], I'll just use that card as a precedent in dealing with [ycard="SD4-EN027"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard].

    Here's what I think:

    If the monster Special Summoned by [ycard="SD4-EN027"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] is flipped face-down, [ycard="SD4-EN027"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] is not destroyed and still targets that face-down monster.
    If [ycard="SD4-EN027"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] is then removed from the field, the face-down monster is destroyed, too.
    If the face-down monster is destroyed instead, [ycard="SD4-EN027"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] is destroyed.

    I dare anyone to find any rule that conflicts what I just said.

    Note to DaGuy: I can't find the Judge List ruling you're referring to.
  14. masterwoo0

    masterwoo0 NINJA4LIFE

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    [ycard="DB1-EN076"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] establishes a "link" with the face-up monster it summons. Once the monster is flipped face-down, there is no longer a relationship with the monster it summoned as it is no longer face-up.

    This card is not a [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard]/[ycard="DB1-EN006"]Spellbinding Circle[/ycard] Clone. Both cards select a monster on the field regardless of position, since one is not indicated.

    [ycard="DB1-EN076"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] can only select at activation, a monster that is already destroyed, so it's position at that point is irrelevant since it is in the Graveyard. At resolution, the monster is summoned face-up to the field where it now targets a "face-up" monster for its continuous effect.

    Nowhere on the card text does it give any indication that a face-down monster is still a target. All statements are presented in reference to a face-up monster.

    If it stated in the Card text, "The selected card may be Special Summoned face-down", then I would think that it would continuously target without regard to position.
  15. DaGuyWitBluGlasses

    DaGuyWitBluGlasses New Member

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    Nowhere on [ycard="DB1-EN076"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] does it reference a defense position monster. It specifies attack position, yet it wouldn't be severed from the monster if it's turned to defense position.
  16. masterwoo0

    masterwoo0 NINJA4LIFE

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    That's just a frame of reference on how the card is to be summoned. The card is still face-up on the field of play if it is placed in "face-up" defense. And the fact that it "doesnt" reference it along with it not being severed makes it a moot discussion.

    That cant even begin to establish a point of consideration on whether it targets a face-down card. There are only two conditions where the effect causes destruction of the monster it targets. One, if the card itself is destroyed while targeting the face-up monster you selected to be reborn, and Two, if the card itself is removed from the field of play, while targeting the face-up monster you selected to be reborn.
  17. Tiso

    Tiso Calculative Duelist

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    Would this not be a question to answered by the Judge List? I am going to see if Yu-Gi-Oh! Online has [ycard="SD3-EN028"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] so I can test whether or not the monster being face-down will change anything. That or probably the latest GBA game. Yes I know the GBA is a bad example to use, but we really do need a solid answer from someone or something. We can all say this and that based what the card says or implies but unless we have some solid proof it really is not going to solve anything. I mean right now, I can say that [ycard="SD3-EN028"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] is not an Equip Card that attaches to the monster because it clearly states no such thing on the card and we know by Game Mechanics that Equip Cards cannot be on a face-down Monster Card. Let alone, cards like [ycard="PGD-106"]Nightmare Wheel[/ycard], [ycard="SRL-EN006"]Spellbinding Circle[/ycard], can work on face-down Monster Cards and what not.
  18. novastar

    novastar New Member

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    The answer here unfortunately is a simple one...but one in which we all hate...because Konami said so...

    That's how they want to card played... it doesn't say it is the text but thats the understanding we've all had right from the time they released it.
  19. Tkwiget

    Tkwiget Da Twiggy Man!

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    Umm, I honestly don't see any problem with the way [ycard="SD3-EN028"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] is worded.

    This is just my two cents on the subject.


    Select 1 monster from your Graveyard and Special Summon it in face-up Attack Position. When this card is removed from the field, destroy the monster. When the monster is destroyed, destroy this card.

    Do you notice the bolded text of [ycard="SD3-EN028"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard]? The continuous effect part is the bolded part. The other half of the card text is how the monster is being summoned. That's all that it means. There isn't any fancy hidden messages in the text, it doesn't need some Card Errata, it's fine the way it is. =/

    Blah...wasted effort..lol​
  20. Dr Sin

    Dr Sin New Member

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    Interesting... the point I was looking for.
    As Tkwiget said: Call text has 2 parts. The second part :
    Select 1 monster from your Graveyard and Special Summon it in face-up Attack Position. When this card is removed from the field, destroy the monster. When the monster is destroyed, destroy this card.

    Has only 2 restrictions printed. In a recent thread (wolttar question about Tenju, about if its effect would happen if it's special summoned) was stated (correctly, IMO) by masterwoo:

    This is not a case where "if it doesnt say it, you can do it".

    When a monster card says it cannot be Normal Summoned or Set, what else is left?

    Special Summon. It doesn't say it expressly, but that's what's left.

    When a card says you get its effect if it is flipped face-up, but is not a FLIP: Monster, do you get effect when he is flip summoned?

    Yes. As long as the monster is flipped face-up, it gets effect.

    [ycard="IOC-088"]Manju of the Ten Thousand Hands[/ycard] does not have to say that it cannot get effect if Special Summoned because it has only given 2 conditions where it can.

    Now applying to this case: Call text only restricts are the above. So, I believe we must assume that any other situation not printed on the card does not cause the "lost of the link" with the monster and Call. It's a different case of equip cards, that have rulings applied for all cards of this type.
    CAll is a continuous trap card, and continuos trap cards have not specific rulings for them. Well, then if the monster linked with Call turns fd, it would still has Call attached to it and with restrictions still applying (IMO), since none of them were fulfilled at the time monster turned fd.
    And if I understood, Tkwiget agree with this point?
    (note: sorry for my English)

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