Priority and simultaneous effects

Discussion in 'TCG Gaming Articles & Guides' started by exiledforcefreak, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. exiledforcefreak

    exiledforcefreak RIP Jacob KT 2/16/06

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    More then half the questions I receive as a judge are regarding priority. Priority is perhaps the most complex aspect of Yu-Gi-Oh. It took me about 5 months to search for all the facts and completely understand it. I am psyched that I have this opportunity to deliver all the facts about priority in a section that can be read in several minutes so that no one has to search for the answers regarding priority questions as I did ever again. When Yu-Gi-Oh first came out the rules were fairly simple; If I summon Catapult Turtle and you destroy Catapult turtle with Trap Hole then I couldn’t use Catapult Turtle effect because it wasn’t on the field. This is not longer the case; the game has become more complex and intricate. Yu-Gi-Oh is at the stage where game mechanics are taking precedence over card rulings; this allows judges to make snap decisions instead of having to memorize the rulings for every single card.
    When Konami introduced Yu-Gi-Oh in Japan when someone had a question Konami answered it… that was the end of the discussion. When Yu-Gi-Oh hit U.S. shores people asked “why?â€. Example: Why does The Shallow Grave require both players to have an eligible target in their respective graveyards when Spear Cretin does not? (this will be explained in the “timing and activation eligibility†section). Example: When both players have a Sangan on the field and 3 Exodia Limbs and the head of Exodia in their hands and Dark Hole is activated and resolves, who wins? Example: Who special summons their monsters first by the effect of Cyber Jar? These are some of the first questions we asked Konami; when Konami answered us, most of us wanted a reason.
    Priority is a very loosely used term, so keep that in mind as I explain it to you. The most common misconception is that a monster can have priority, this misconception arose when people started saying “I will use Tribe-infecting Virus’s priority and activate his effectâ€; this is absolutely, 100%, incorrect. Only the people dueling can have priority, no monster or card of any sort can have priority; it is you, the player, who has priority.
    Some people will say that the turn player always has priority; our understanding of priority has since expanded. “Turn player†is a term coined to define the person whose turn it is. The most common situation where questions of priority arise is when the turn player summons a monster and wishes to use its effect but the non-turn player would like to use Ring of Destruction/Trap Hole/etc. to destroy that monster before it’s effect can be activated. The fact of the matter is that the turn player has priority to activate the effect of the monster they have summoned followed by passing priority to the non-turn player to chain to the effect of that monster. By “passing priority†I mean giving the opportunity to activate something from one player to another; in this case the example mentioned in the previous sentence the turn player was passing priority to the non-turn player.
    Here’s what confused me… if my opponent can activate Tribe-Infecting Virus’s effect… how can I chain trap hole to the effect of another monster instead of activating it in response to the summoning of a monster? The short answer is that you just can, Konami said so. The reason Konami said this is because, in this example, it would be the first opportunity the non-turn player would have to activate Trap Hole; this can be applied to many situations.
    The only monster that currently does not get to use it’s effect immediately after being summoned is Breaker the Magical Warrior; you summon Breaker the Magical Warrior and use your priority to activate his effect… what does that mean? Breaker, as do many monsters, has two effects. It would be best for me to explain this using an example chain to avoid confusion:

    Activation 
    -Player A summons Breaker the Magical Warrior and immediately activates his effect of adding a counter
    -Player B responds by activating Trap Hole
    -Player A chooses not to activate anything in response to Trap Hole
    -Player B chooses not to activate anything in response to Trap Hole

    Resolution 
    -Player B’s Trap Hole resolves and destroys Breaker the Magical Warrior
    -The effect of player A’s Breaker the Magical Warrior resolves without effect because breaker is no longer on the field thus there is nothing to add a counter to

    Priority does not apply only to monsters that have just summoned, it applies all cards on the turn player’s side of the field. Lets say I have a set Torrential Tribute, a Breaker the Magical Warrior with a counter, and a Cannon Soldier on my side of the field. My opponent has a set Torrential Tribute and Magic Drain and I a summon Sinister Serpent, my opponent has to wait until either A)say I am not using my priority, B)activate Torrential Tribute, C)until I use Breaker the Magical Warrior’s effect, or C)until I use Cannon Soldier’s effect. Priority can be applied to someone entering a new phase. I state I’m ending my standby phase and pass priority to my opponent, my opponent passes priority back to me by choosing to not activate anything, I then enter my main phase 1. When I enter my main phase 1 I have priority to activate a magic card, trap card, a monster’s effect, flip summon a monster, etc. before my opponent can activate anything.
    Here’s another interesting situation that happened to me in a tournament the other night. I summoned Exiled Force and my opponent decided he wanted to use Trap Hole on it. I told him I wanted to use my priority to use Exiled’s effect before he could use Trap Hole on it… the thing was that he can’t activate trap hole on a monster that isn’t there. Exiled Force is a cost effect, the cost for Exiled Force’s effect is tributing him (Exiled Force), and, as we all know, costs are paid at activation, not resolution. This means that by the time my I pass priority to my opponent my Exiled Force is in the graveyard, this means he can’t activate Trap Hole because the monster that was just summoned is now in the graveyard.
    This brings me to my next point. My opponent assumed I wasn’t going to use Exiled Force’s effect and he paid the price for his assumption by letting me know that his face down card was a Trap Hole. When your opponent summons a monster with an effect always ask your opponent if he/she would like to use his/her priority to use the effect of the monster that has just been summoned. If you do not ask your opponent then priority is assumed. Let me explain why this is important.
    Player a has A has 1300 life points, a face down Trap Hole, three defense position goat tokens, and a defense position Magical Scientist. Player B has a face up attack position Mataza the Zapper, a Tribe-Infecting Virus and two other cards in his hand. Player B is afraid that player A’s face down Trap Hole is a Magic Cylinder and wants to win this turn, so he decides he’s going to summon his Tribe-Infecting Virus and discard both cards in his hand to destroyed all beast and spellcasters. Player B summons Tribe-Infecting Virus and before he can say anything Player A, without asking if player B would like to use his priority, activated Trap Hole.
    Player B didn’t care what kind of monster he discarded to destroy first and was going to chose spellcasters. Now that Player A has activated Trap Hole player B says “wait, I’m going to use my priority to discard to destroy all beast typesâ€. Player B’s Tribe-Infecting Virus is sent to the graveyard and all of player A’s goat tokens are gone. Player B now enters his battle phase, attacks player A’s Magical Scientist with Mataza the Zapper and then attacks with Mataza the Zapper again wipeing out player A’s life points. If player A had waited to activate Trap Hole till after Player B discarded to destroy all spellcasters, player A would still have 1 goat token and 1300 life points instead of having lost the duel.
    There are other times when priority is passed back and fourth. Every time someone activates a card priority is passed to the person who did not activate that card. Priority is passed to the non-turn player when the turn player wants to end one of their phases. Priority is passed when an action is performed or when a chain fully resolves.
    Another issue that doesn’t technically fall under the category of priority but does have relevance to who the turn player is would be simultaneous effects. When a D.D. Warrior Lady attacks a Wall of Illusion what happens? They can’t activate at the same time, that just isn’t possible. The answer is that the effect of the turn player’s D.D. Warrior Lady is the first link in the chain and the effect of the non-turn player’s wall of Illusion is chain link 2. They resolve in reverse order; Wall of Illusion’s effect resolves first sending D.D. Warrior Lady back to the hand of the turn player, then D.D. Warrior Lady resolves allowing the turn player to remove Wall of Illusion from play. D.D. Warrior Lady isn’t removed from play because it is no longer on the field.
    Another example would be the question regarding Exodia, Sangan, and Dark Hole mentioned in the second paragraph of this section. The person who activated Dark Hole would be the turn player because you can only activate Dark Hole if it’s your own turn. Dark Hole would resolve and destroy both player’s Sangans. The two Sangans would be put into a chain immediately following the resolution of Dark Hole; the turn player’s Sangan would be chain link 1 and the non-turn player’s Sangan would be chain link 2. Resolution occurs in reverse order; the effect of the non-turn player’s Sangan resolves first allowing the non-turn player to search for the final piece of Exodia – the duel is over, the non-turn player wins and the effect of the turn player’s Sangan never resolves.
    I would like to note that the ONLY time spell speed 1 effects can be chained to one another is in situations with simultaneous effects, such as the one in the above paragraph, occurs.
    You can apply the rules applied to these situations to other cards with simultaneous effects. Some of the cards that come to mind are Cyber Jar, Morphing Jar #2, Dragged into the Grave, The Shallow Grave, Spear Cretin, Etc.
  2. exiledforcefreak

    exiledforcefreak RIP Jacob KT 2/16/06

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    It's a work in progress, feel free to add in things I have forgotten, make suggestions, etc.

    @mods feel free to put on Netrepâ„¢ site
  3. densetsu_x

    densetsu_x .

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    1) It's not simply because "Konami said so". Events that don't have a spell speed can be responded to before the resolution of another chain or event. This applies not only to summoning, but also to the declaration of an attack.

    2) "Priority" only applies to the activation of "Ignition" or "Multi-Trigger" Effects, aka Manually activated events. "Breaker the Magical Warrior"'s effect of getting a counter is a Trigger effect (the trigger being that he was normal summoned). He is not the only monster with a Trigger effect. Summon "Dark Magician of Chaos" and you have a similar occurance. Because a chain is automatically started by the activation of the Trigger effect, you no longer have the right to activate another effect. This gives the opponent a chance to respond to the activated chain or to the summon itself.

    3) Don't forget that there is that window before the summon is considered "Successful" where cards like "Solemn Judgment", "Horn of Heaven", and "Royal Oppression" can negate said summon before the monster hits the field.

    4) "Priority" can be used to activate the effect of any "Ignition Effect" / "Multi-Trigger Effect" monster already on your side of the field, not merely the monster summoned (again assuming the summoned monster does not have a trigger effect where the trigger is "Summoned Successfully")
  4. exiledforcefreak

    exiledforcefreak RIP Jacob KT 2/16/06

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    Thank you, that last bit I had forgotten to add in.

    I was thinking about adding the part about "successful" in "the peanut gallery" section but I'm thinking I should add it in here.

    Anyone else? Comments/things I forgot/things I need to change/thoughts?
  5. densetsu_x

    densetsu_x .

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    Don't forget to credit your sources on the whole Priority issue and wait for the updated article on the subject to be released since it is far more accurate than what was posted on the boards.
  6. John Danker

    John Danker Administrator

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    <Quote>

    Here’s what confused me… if my opponent can activate Tribe-Infecting Virus’s effect… how can I chain trap hole to the effect of another monster instead of activating it in response to the summoning of a monster? The short and anti-logic answer is that you just can, Konami said so.

    <End Quote>

    Konami says so because it would be first chance you have to respond to the summon.
  7. exiledforcefreak

    exiledforcefreak RIP Jacob KT 2/16/06

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    Of course I will credit the netrep forums for helping me become so polished in my understanding of the game. I did not reffer to sources when typing this, it came directly from my brain. I wouldn't have the patience to figure out the information from sources If I didn't knwo this already.

    I know, I just didn't think that was important enough to add in, do you?
  8. Sage13

    Sage13 New Member

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    Is this official? Is this what Upperdeck and Konami want us to go by, or what? I have been told that netrep is not official; only yugioh-card.com is.
  9. Raigekick

    Raigekick New Member

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    I don't think this is official. Non of the articles in Netrepâ„¢ are officials, but they can be vied as best guesses. Only information found in UDE website are considered officials.

    EDIT: Though I think UDE uses this site for very informative decisions and ideas.
  10. somewan

    somewan Custom User Title

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    You are correct. If you need official rulings and guidelines, they are provided on the UDE website. We are not to be considered official rulings.

    What we hope to do is provide an area where players and judges can discuss/clarify rulings provided by UDE. It is not our goal to make up rulings, but to provide interpretations on the rules provided to make the game fun for all.

    We know how difficult it is to try and keep up to date with rulings, and it is our hope that the resources we provide (these fourms, the on-line card registry, RONIN, the ARRJ, etc...) makes it easier for the YGO community.

    The only tournament-enforceable rules are found on the UDE site. Hopefully, the resources provided here make finding (and understanding) those rulings simplier.
  11. Sage13

    Sage13 New Member

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    Then in tournaments, can we (as judges) choose not to use priority, since it is not "official"? I have asked both Mr. Tewart and Mr. Okegawa, with no response.
  12. soulwarrior

    soulwarrior New Member

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    I like your article, but the Breaker part is (as stated before) just wrong.

    Breaker comes to the field
    -> Trigger Effect activates (get a Counter)
    -> There is NO Counter on Breaker at this point, the Counter will be put on Breaker at the RESOLUTION of this effect!!!

    -> Priority passes to opponent
    -> opponent activates Trap Hole

    RESOLUTION:

    -> Trap Hole destroys Breaker
    -> Counter setting effect of Breaker goes to nirvana, since Breaker's no longer on the field at the resolution of this effect.


    You cannot use Breakers effect in a chain to the Trap Hole for two reasons:

    1) it's a ignition effect, so it has Spell Speed 1, you cannot chain it to another effect
    2) it has NO Counter at the point you want to use it's effect (chain to TH)

    That's the only thing I would correct right now... ^^

    soul :cool:
  13. exiledforcefreak

    exiledforcefreak RIP Jacob KT 2/16/06

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    Thanks. However, I was under the understanding that adding the spell counter was not an activate + resolve type of effect....
  14. Raijinili

    Raijinili New Member

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    Comment: Hard to read. Please organize.

    Unless you want this to be a priority ESSAY, instead of an FAQ. Well, then, you'd better put in some line breaks anyway.
  15. John Danker

    John Danker Administrator

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    <Article Quote>
    Here’s what confused me… if my opponent can activate Tribe-Infecting Virus’s effect… how can I chain trap hole to the effect of another monster instead of activating it in response to the summoning of a monster? The short and anti-logic answer is that you just can, Konami said so.

    <Article end Quote>


    <Quote from John Danker>
    Konami says so because it would be first chance you have to respond to the summon.
    <End Quote>


    <Quote>
    I know, I just didn't think that was important enough to add in, do you
    <End Quote>

    Yes, I do think it's important enough to add in. We're attempting to help people understand. That includes explaining the reasoning behind the rulings. By understanding the concepts and reasons people will relate it to other situations.
  16. exiledforcefreak

    exiledforcefreak RIP Jacob KT 2/16/06

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    It is actually VERY well organized... It just didn't show up that way when I copied and pasted it from MS WORD

    Alright then, I'll fix it


    Expect me to make all edits to this post withing the next few days
  17. densetsu_x

    densetsu_x .

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    "Priority" is an official game mechanic. The full explanation hasn't been made "official" yet. However, there have been some rulings on the judge's mailing list that explains what you can do.

    The short of it. When a monster is summoned, because it has no spell speed, you as the turn player can start a chain provided that one has not already been started.

    What this means is that if the monster has a Trigger Effect (like with "Breaker the Magical Warrior") then you cannot start another one. It's already started and your opponent can respond to the summon or the chain.

    Otherwise, if a chain hasn't started, you can start one by either
    a) Activating an "Ignition Effect" of one of your monsters on the field (be it the one you summoned or one that was already there)
    b) Activating a "Multi-Trigger Effect" of one of your monsters on the field (like with "Strike Ninja").
    c) Activate a Spell Speed 2 (or higher) Spell/Trap.

    At that point, your opponent can respond to the summon or add to the chain (such as "Bottomless Trap Hole" on your monster or "Torrential Tribute").

    Note 1: The opponent can ask if you wish to activate an effect. If you say "no", you cannot go back afterwards and claim "priority" to do so. You had your chance.

    Note 2: "Solemn Judgment", "Horn or Heaven", and "Royal Oppression" responses occur before the summon is considered "successful" so if any of those are used, the monster is never considered to have hit the field.
  18. Sage13

    Sage13 New Member

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    Where does it say it's an offical game mechanic? The whole thing is contradictory to the rule book; unless 5.0 says otherwise, what proof do judges go by?
  19. PerfectZelgadis

    PerfectZelgadis New Member

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    Thank you

    Thankyou for taking the time to put all this together. It answered many of my questions about Priority.
  20. densetsu_x

    densetsu_x .

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    It's "official" in that what's on the mailing list is considered "official" and Curtis has already been explaining some of the basics of "Priority" on that list. Not to mention that is how the game is played in the Konami controlled regions and has been for far longer than we've had to deal with. And since there has been a push to get the game played the same in all regions, yes, it's an official way to play the game.

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