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Great Shogun Shien

Discussion in 'Rules Questions (YGO)' started by chenw, Jun 21, 2007.

  1. chenw

    chenw New Member

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    Why is it that if you stop your opponent's Spell/Trap card with Solemn Judgment, that s/he is still allowed to activate another S/T but if Solemn Judgment is used against a Normal Summon, s/he does not get another summon? Another BKSS scenario or is there some good justification for it?
  2. Black Shadow

    Black Shadow Too Cool For School

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    I think with at least with the Great Shogun Shien situation if you Solemn Judgement a spell or trap then the card was never activated and was negated altogether so yes with the Shogun Sitiation you can activate another spell or trap card, hope this helps
  3. EmeraldDragon

    EmeraldDragon Bringer of Doom

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    When a normal summon is negated the summon is cancelled but you are still considered to have normal summoned simply because you attempted to do so.

    When a spell/trap card is negated you can activate another as you have yet to activate one you merely attempted to but were unsuccessful.
  4. chenw

    chenw New Member

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    But even if your attempt was unsuccessful, its not 'It never happened', it just didnt get through, you still have legitimately activated a Spell/Trap card this turn...
  5. EmeraldDragon

    EmeraldDragon Bringer of Doom

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    No you havent. If the activation is negated then as far as the shogun is concerned it never activated. When it says activate it means successfully activate not attempt to activate. Possibly a word or two missing from the effect text but thats how it should be read anyway.
  6. Maruno

    Maruno Council of Heroes Staff Member

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    This game, and particularly Counter Trap Cards, rewrite the history of the game.

    Solemn Judgment is like a new king taking power and changing the history books. It does so completely, so there is no evidence in the history books that the card was ever activated. The only thing to even suggest that things hadn't actually happened the way the history books say, is the population, the poor people who had lived through the events in the original history. The players are the population.

    However, since the game works solely according to the history books, no amount of complaining from the population can change things. In fact, if things get too rowdy, Konami might order their army to quell the uprising.
  7. Dasher

    Dasher New Member

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    I would say it's the same as with Spell Absorption. If the Spell gets negated, it's like it never happend so you don't get LP boost. What you need is an activation of spell in both cases. But Solemn negates activation so it's like it never happend.
  8. HorusMaster

    HorusMaster New Member

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    But this same arguement can be used to say that since the summoning of a monster was negated, it never happened. The player's mechanics of summoning a monster occurred but the summoning of the monster was negated. The game mechanic still occurred, it's just that the monster was not allowed to be summoned and that is why you cannot normal summon again. The same game mechanic occurred with the activation of a S/T card, but unfortunately with regard to Great Shogun, the ability of a player to activate another S/T card is merely BKSS. It goes against the mechanics of Solemn Judgement's effect and prior rulings but that's not the first time this has ever happened, is it?
  9. EmeraldDragon

    EmeraldDragon Bringer of Doom

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    Well this is where it gets into the realm of stuff that hasnt exactly been nailed down yet. Its where we have to look at how things really work. When you want to summon you may DECLARE 1 normal summon a turn whether it is successful or not. You can DECLARE the activation of spell and trap cards all you want as well. Now if you declare a summon and it doesnt go through your declaration is gone and you simply need to move on. If your spell or trap is negated yeah it was declared but not activated so for the purposes of shogun you can declare another one quite easily as it actually checks activation not declaration like the game mechanics do (in secret).
  10. kingpinopie

    kingpinopie Himoura Shinta

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    hmmm... i know the answer to this one..

    Cuz Konami Said So..... (who has the sig with that in Japanese?)
  11. Dasher

    Dasher New Member

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    You mean this one? :bkss

    But I think maybe there's a difference, because you can chain to spell/trap cards, but not to summon. Maybe that's the reason you will use up your summon ...

    When you summon, the monster is in process of summoning a bit father and then you hit it with negation and such. but when you activate spell/trap card, you immedietly chain to it so it get's negated right away. Other then that nothing strikes me as different between summoning and activating spell/trap card ...
  12. DarkLogicianOfCaos

    DarkLogicianOfCaos Eschew Obfuscation

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    We had a discussionaobout something like this awhile back and someone used the term summoning chip (I think). Anyway, the way it was related was every turn a player has a figurative summoning chip given by Game Mechanics that allows for 1 only Normal Summon (effects can grant you more), it is similar to the 1 and only 1 Attack chip that Game Mechanics give to Monsters. When You Summon (or a monster attacks) you use up that once per turn chip. Irregardless of whether or not the summon (or attack) gets negated, (unless another effect is granting you another), you have already spent your 1 chip. It is gone. You cannot do it again.

    For Shien, it is an effect, not a Game Mechanic that says 1 card. Now it could be that Shien is continuously looking to stop a second activation. If a first activation is negated, then it is still looking to prevent a second, BUT another activation, it sees as still a first, because there has been no first. Then, it looks to prevent a second activation (again). Or, it could just be BKSS (or better wording in Japanese). IMHO

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