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I need a recap on Dark World...

Discussion in 'Rules Questions (YGO)' started by Tkwiget, Apr 5, 2006.

  1. Tkwiget

    Tkwiget Da Twiggy Man!

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    I'm pretty sure I'd rule correctly on these situations. Just want to make sure.

    Situation A

    Turn Player has [ycard="EEN-EN024"]Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World[/ycard] and [ycard="EEN-EN023"]Sillva, Warlord of Dark World[/ycard] in his hand. Player B has a Set [ycard="LOD-EN092"]Bottomless Trap Hole[/ycard]. Turn Player activates [ycard="SDY-042"]Card Destruction[/ycard]. [ycard="SDY-042"]Card Destruction[/ycard] resolves completely. [ycard="EEN-EN024"]Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World[/ycard] and [ycard="EEN-EN023"]Sillva, Warlord of Dark World[/ycard] are Special Summoned to the field. Player B responds by activating [ycard="LOD-EN092"]Bottomless Trap Hole[/ycard]. Both [ycard="EEN-EN024"]Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World[/ycard] and [ycard="EEN-EN023"]Sillva, Warlord of Dark World[/ycard] are destroyed and removed from play.

    Situation B

    Turn Player has an active [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard] on the field. Player B has three [ycard="EEN-EN024"]Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World[/ycard] in his hand. Turn Player activates [ycard="SDY-042"]Card Destruction[/ycard]. All of the [ycard="EEN-EN024"]Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World[/ycard] activate at the same time to Special Summon onto the field. The Turn Player activates [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard] to pay 800 Life Points to negate the Special Summoning of all three [ycard="EEN-EN024"]Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World[/ycard].

    Situation C

    Turn Player has a Set [ycard="TP4-002"]Morphing Jar[/ycard] with three copies of [ycard="EEN-EN021"]Broww, Huntsman of Dark World[/ycard] in his hand. Turn Player Flip Summons his [ycard="TP4-002"]Morphing Jar[/ycard] and discards all three copies of [ycard="EEN-EN021"]Broww, Huntsman of Dark World[/ycard]. The Turn Player first draws his five new cards from [ycard="TP4-002"]Morphing Jar[/ycard]'s effect and then draws one card per copy of [ycard="EEN-EN021"]Broww, Huntsman of Dark World[/ycard] that he discarded from [ycard="TP4-002"]Morphing Jar[/ycard]'s effect.


    Am I correct on all three of these situations? The first two situations I'm ruling on like that because [ycard="EEN-EN024"]Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World[/ycard], [ycard="EEN-EN023"]Sillva, Warlord of Dark World[/ycard], and Biiege, Vanguard of Dark World don't trigger their special summoning effect when entering a game phase, like [ycard="SD2-EN003"]Vampire Lord[/ycard].

    I've got a regional coming up that I'm judging and I need a recap on these situations. =)
  2. skey23

    skey23 Council of Heroes

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    Nope. Because the Darkworld Monsters form a SEGOC chain, only the last monster Special Summoned would be removed from play by "[ycard="LOD-EN092"]Bottomless Trap Hole[/ycard]".
    Nope, again, for the same reason, the SEGOC chain will be formed when all 3 activate, only the last one placed on the chain can be negated with "[ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard]".
    This one is correct!


    Hope this helps!
  3. soulwarrior

    soulwarrior New Member

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    I will try to further explain the post, maybe some newer users are not all too familiar with SEGOC.

    SEGOC = simultaneous effects going on chain.
    So when a couple of effects try to activate at the same time, you put them all on a chain.

    In this case, all the Dark World effects are resolved one after another, so your first Goldd hits the field, then in the next chain link the next Goldd is special summoned and so on..

    after the whole chain has completely resolved, the Game State says 'Last Goldd was summoned'.
    It does NOT say 'a couple of Goldds were summoned', no, it only looks at what happened LAST (Timing issues... look at Peten's rulings to get a better understanding of Timing and Game States ;) ).

    So you can only respond to the LAST summon of your opponents monster!

    Note:

    If your opponent would have discardet a Broww and several Goldd's and would choose to have Broww become Chain Link 1, Broww's effect would be the last to resolve.

    So you could NOT respond to ANY of your opponents DW monsters' (Goldds) summons!

    I guess there's nothing I could add to this comment... ^^

    soul :cool:
  4. Tkwiget

    Tkwiget Da Twiggy Man!

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    Just wanted to make sure I wasn't getting game mechanics mixed up. That has been happening a lot lately with me.
  5. kansashoops

    kansashoops New Member

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    Now that I hadn't heard before, but it makes sense. Good to know. Should be fun explaining that one to my son...
  6. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm not looking at any of the posts so far just to see if I've got these Dark World Monsers down. At one time I thought I did, and turn out I missed a few things.
    I'd have to say no on that one. Goldd and Silva's effects both form a chain and the Turn Player would have to decide which was Chain Link 1. Whichever monster was chosen for Chain Link 1 would be the one affected by [ycard="LOD-EN092"]Bottomless Trap Hole[/ycard].

    I hate [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard]. <sigh>

    No again. Each Goldd resolves seperately. Each would require an 800 Life Point payment.
    I'm not sure why he would wait until after he draws for Browws to discard. He should simply resolve [ycard="TP4-002"]Morphing Jar[/ycard] first and then draw for his Browws.
  7. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh yeah, timing. I told you I hate [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard].
  8. Kyhotae

    Kyhotae Delusional Knight

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    Actually, the effect of "[ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard]" has to be chained to an effect that Special Summons a card, so it would have to be chained to link 2 and only negate the Special Summon immediately preceding in on the chain. The other one on chain link 1 would not be eligible for negation because you can't activate "[ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard]" in the middle of a chain.

    And I agree. I hate "[ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard]" too. Ugh.
  9. masterwoo0

    masterwoo0 NINJA4LIFE

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    Wrong.

    [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard] negates monsters that summon themselves as well as external effects that summon monsters.

    You are right about not being able to insert itself into a resolving chain though...
  10. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

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    Hence my comment on timing. Then again, thre are three Goldd's in this instance so it would have to be chained to Link 3.

    I'm still not following how Broww resolves inbetween two part of [ycard="TP4-002"]Morphing Jar[/ycard]'s effect.

    I have a rulings qustion. What the heck is Wu-Lord? Is that like Wu-Tang?
  11. Kyhotae

    Kyhotae Delusional Knight

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    Let me be more specific. If you're using it to negate an effect that Special Summons a monster, it must be chained to that effect. :nyah_jedi

    It doesn't. You all discard, everyone draws five more cards, THEN "Broww" resolves and you get the cards for each one.
  12. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

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    Nevermind, it looked like TK typed "then" when he typed "that".
  13. Tkwiget

    Tkwiget Da Twiggy Man!

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    Lol, well one little word can change your opinion on a situation completely. It happens to pretty much all of us.

    How I've seen it played out is that each Goldd would activate and resolve in seperate chain blocks. So [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard] can negate each Special Summoning of each Goldd in that situation?

    So what you're saying is each Goldd are in seperate chain blocks?

    As for the [ycard="TP4-002"]Morphing Jar[/ycard] situation. [ycard="TP4-002"]Morphing Jar[/ycard] has to resolve first because Broww won't activate unless it was discarded. It has to activate after it was discarded because [ycard="TP4-002"]Morphing Jar[/ycard] is in the middle of resolving its effect.
  14. soulwarrior

    soulwarrior New Member

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    Also tell him that it would always be a good idea to activate a Normal Spell card and CHAIN [ycard="DB1-EN076"]Call of the Haunted[/ycard] rather than use Call as Chain Link 1.
    His opponent will always miss the timing for [ycard="DB1-EN228"]Torrential Tribute[/ycard], Bottomless, stuff like that... ;)

    I heard about a chinese Wu-dynasty and guess it could have something to do with that.
    There should have been a famous Wu-lord who threw down a lot of his opponents. :)

    No, you bild ONE chain with all simultaneous effects:

    CL 1: Goldd
    CL 2: Goldd
    CL 3: Goldd

    NOW, after that chain has already been built, your opponent can chain as well.
    He could now chain [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard] as Chain Link 4, but only to negate CL3 Goldd's special summon! ;)

    Let's have a look at it:

    CL 1: Goldd
    CL 2: Goldd
    CL 3: Goldd
    CL 4: Oppression

    resolve it the other way round:

    Oppression negates CL3 Goldd's special summon.
    The other 2 Goldd's are summoned one after another.

    soul :cool:
  15. masterwoo0

    masterwoo0 NINJA4LIFE

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    So, in a situation such as this, where we are using Dark World Monsters, we are chaining to the activation of the effect from the Graveyard to negate the Special Summon, or, are we responding to the "last" monster in the Chain Link to be Special Summoned?

    It just seems kind of "backwards" to negate a Summon of a monster that hasnt even been summoned yet. That's kind of like activating [ycard="DB2-EN073"]Solemn Judgment[/ycard] in the middle of a Summon, instead of responding to the summon.

    I mean, even in the example of [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard] with [ycard="SD2-EN003"]Vampire Lord[/ycard], they are stating that when [ycard="SD2-EN003"]Vampire Lord[/ycard] IS summoned by his effect, you can negate the "summon" with [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard]. I would think that if you could negate it from the Graveyard, it would say that "when [ycard="SD2-EN003"]Vampire Lord[/ycard] activates his effect from the Graveyard, you can negate it with [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard]".

    So, wouldnt [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard]'s timing be more like [ycard="LOD-EN092"]Bottomless Trap Hole[/ycard] and [ycard="DB1-EN228"]Torrential Tribute[/ycard] when it is not responding to a external card effect that summons monsters?
  16. Kyhotae

    Kyhotae Delusional Knight

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    "[ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard]" negates the effect of cards that Special Summon. So anytime a card activates an effect that will Special Summon a monster, you can chain "[ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard]" and negate it. The reason you can destroy the monster before it hits the field is because the effect activates before it hits the field. With "[ycard="DB2-EN073"]Solemn Judgment[/ycard]" and a Normal Summon, you activate it after you see that a monster is being summoned. You don't have an effect to negate, just the Summon, so you can't really activate it until you see the monster, but TECHNICALLY you're not "responding" to the Summon. You're negating it before it ever happened (sort of like "rewinding" back to just before the Summon") which is why it works against "[ycard="BPT-011"]Jinzo[/ycard]". Though you see him on the field, he never actually got there.
  17. masterwoo0

    masterwoo0 NINJA4LIFE

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    Okay, so lets say my opponent has [ycard="SOI-EN025"]Treeborn Frog[/ycard] in the Graveyard. Its an optional effect, and during his Standby Phase he says "I think I will activate [ycard="SOI-EN025"]Treeborn Frog[/ycard]'s effect", I pay 800 to negate and then he says, "On second thought, nevermind", then he resolves another effect from hand during the Standby Phase, then states, "Now I will activate [ycard="SOI-EN025"]Treeborn Frog[/ycard]'s effect!"

    So, I pay 800 for real this time, and he changes his mind again.

    You see where I'm going with this? I can say all day that I am intending to summon a monster. Until my opponent actually does so, he can waffle back and forth saying that he really didnt intend to and was just "thinking out loud".

    Like I said with the [ycard="SD2-EN003"]Vampire Lord[/ycard] vs [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard], the rulings doesnt say, "I think my opponent is going to Special Summon him, so I'll negate it!" It says "When [ycard="SD2-EN003"]Vampire Lord[/ycard] is Special Summoned...."

    You can't negate something that has yet to happen. That's why they call the action "Negate" and not "Prevent". You can only prevent an action before it occurs, with cards like [ycard="LON-EN018"]Mask of Restrict[/ycard]. You can't activate [ycard="DB2-EN073"]Solemn Judgment[/ycard] just to say, "Now you can't summon a monster this turn!" You'd look like an idiot!!
  18. John Danker

    John Danker Administrator

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    From a judging standpoint you're going to have to watch how you approach questions regarding Dark World monsters, especially when it involves two of them being discarded by [ycard="SDP-040"]Graceful Charity[/ycard] and BTH. Perhaps the best way to respond to a question about that scenario is to explain that both Dark World monsters are discarded at the same time and that simultainious activations go on a chain, then ask which monster effect the player would like to be first on the chain, in this way the player has made a decision and you've given the mechanics without giving the player a potential advantage by explaining the potenial ramifcations of the outcome. The second line of thought is to explain the full process of the mechanics including the resolution of the chain, which monster would be summoned first, and which one second. In both scenarios you're giving the mechanics (which is of course allowed) but in the second scenario you're possibly giving advantage to the turn player.....what's your opinion? Give the full explination or the partial explination?.....or, give the partial and if pressed include the remainder of the mechanic?
  19. EmeraldDragon

    EmeraldDragon Bringer of Doom

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    Thing is when ya give a ruling on anything you are potentially giving an advantage to a player whereby maybe it isnt apparent in the current game but it allows him to plan something devious for his next game.

    And DJ a wu is a human that has been altered by magic to become basicly a zombie slave of a powerful master. a wu-lord simply is the lord and master of many wu's Wu's cant be killed and always heal as from anything as long as their master is alive. The perfect bodyguards. They get very powerful.
  20. anthonyj

    anthonyj New Member

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    Where would the player be getting the opportunity to change his mind? He has activated an effect which creates a chain!

    Player 1 activates the effect of [ycard="SOI-EN025"]Treeborn Frog[/ycard] or [ycard="SD2-EN003"]Vampire Lord[/ycard] or Sacred Phoenix (you get the idea) that becomes chain link 1.
    Player 2 activates [ycard="LOD-EN091"]Royal Oppression[/ycard] to negate the summon, that becomes chain link 2.

    In the case of [ycard="SOI-EN025"]Treeborn Frog[/ycard] Player 1 can then start another chain with [ycard="SOI-EN025"]Treeborn Frog[/ycard] again over and over again until Player 2 has given up negating the summon or doesn't have the Life Points to keep playing this silly game. :)

    In the case of Sacred Phoenix, he is now not coming back because he can't be re-destroyed while he is already in the graveyard.

    In the case of [ycard="SD2-EN003"]Vampire Lord[/ycard], see ruling for Sacred Phoenix for what should happen and then see the antiquated ruling from before it had been explained that monsters in the graveyard can't be re-destroyed and marvel at the inadequacy of UDE/Konami in fixing old rulings that have been brought to their attention :haveaday

    In the case of summons from hand, you "announce the summon" and it is negated before it has actually "arrived on the field". After this many years you'd think we'd have this fairly clear.

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