1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

imperial order vs wave motion cannon

Discussion in 'Rules Questions (YGO)' started by StRiKe_NiNjA, Mar 3, 2005.

  1. StRiKe_NiNjA

    StRiKe_NiNjA Dimension Shift Ninja

    Trophy Points:
    0
    since skill drain can't negate the effect exiled force when tributed through the effect if skill drain was chained to it, could this be applied to wave motion cannon being tributed vs imperial order?
  2. Raigekick

    Raigekick New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not likely. Since "Imperial Order" doesn't require a card to be face-up in the field to negate it.

    I base this on the following posts:
    1. [thread=7020][judge-yu] Silent Swordsman Lv 7 Question[/thread]
    2. [thread=6662]A question about Jinzo[/thread]
    Spell and Trap Card Effects are different from Monster Effects.
  3. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    Trophy Points:
    63
    Actually theres a few rulings on Wave-Motion Cannon that can help to clarifiy:

    If I remeber correctly, costs can never be negated unless something specificaly negates cost effects.

    And since the cost can't be negated, Imperial wouldn't negate the effect because it activates in the Graveyard. This is the way I've always played it and I've not run into any contradictions or complaints so far. But I have yet to see anything more official other than what I have gleened from the rulings.
  4. Raigekick

    Raigekick New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not contradicting that you can't send "Wave Motion Cannon" to the Graveyard if "Imperial Order" is active. In fact you can send WMC, but the inflicting part will be negated because of IO.

    In addition, I don't think WMC activates in the Graveyard, it's effect is still on the field, after it got sent to the Graveyard, that is why IO negates its inflict Life Point damage.

    I could be wrong on this too, since I've been giving bad ruling lately :eek:
  5. novastar

    novastar New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wave-Motion Cannon is activated on the field, exactly the same way Cannon Soldier's effect works.

    The reason you cannot chain Magic Jammer or Dark Paladin's effect is because they can only be chained to Card Activation not Effect Activation.

    Imperial Order will not stop you from activating WMC's effect and sending it to the Graveyard. However, once the effect tries to resolve, if IO is still activate it will be negated.

    All it requires is that the effect be activated on the field, what happens to the card afterwards is irrelevent.
  6. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    Trophy Points:
    63
    Hmmm. Wouldn't Imperial be unable to negate the Cannon because it activates in the Graveyard.
  7. Raigekick

    Raigekick New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    Like what I said, WMC does not activate in the graveyard, it activates on the field when you sent it to the Graveyard. I know, kinda confusing huh.

    EDIT: It's effect is still on the field.
  8. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    Trophy Points:
    63
    So this is different from monster effects that activate activate in the Graveyard? I've been hearing a lot more about the effect of Spells/Traps remaining on the field as oppossed to monster effects. That is kinda confusing.
  9. novastar

    novastar New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    "Send this card on the field to the Graveyard during your Main Phase."

    That is a cost... for an effect that can only be activated when WMC is face-up on the field.

    This game has Zones...

    - WMC's effect is activated in the Field Zone (by Sending it itself as cost).
    - IO only negates effects that are activated or exist in the Field Zone.

    So, IO negates WMC's effect.

    Hope that helps
  10. novastar

    novastar New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just think of it in terms of Cannon Soldier tributing itself, the idea is the same for WMC, its only the wording of "Send" vs. "Tribute" as they are really effectively the same thing or action. Both effects are activated on the field.

    The real difference here is that Skill Drain and Imperial Order operate differently, and Monster Effects operate differently from Spell/Trap Effects.

    Skill Drain must actually see the Effect Monster face-up on the field in order to negate the effect, IO does not have to see the Magic/Spell face-up on the field...
  11. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    Trophy Points:
    63
    "Send this card on the field . . ."

    I missed that. Makes a bit of difference. I run a Stall Deck built exclusivly around Wave-Motion so I was a little concerned. But actually, I like it. You can keep paying for Imperial if you want to. I'll just keep counting Stanby Phases. :p
  12. OKShadow

    OKShadow OKC's Dark Duelist

    Trophy Points:
    0
    On that same line of thought what about Jinzo/Royal Decree vs Stone Statue/Dark Coffin? Since those are destroyed face down and hit the graveyard to activate the effect.... is that a "field effect" or "graveyard effect"?
  13. chaosruler

    chaosruler New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    hey, just think of WMC as sort of, and I use that term VERY loosely, a lingering effect. You send it off, then it's effect lingers trying to resolve, but IO stops this, and also, I don't think you count turns while IO is active (hammer me on this if I'm wrong, anyone)

    -chaosruler
  14. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

    Trophy Points:
    63
    Consider yourself Hammered. (What a minute. That doesn't sound right. :eek: )

    Wave-Motion counts the number of Standby Phases that have passed since activation. It doesn't recieve counters or anything like that. The number of Standby Phases dont change just because Imperial's on the field.
  15. chaosruler

    chaosruler New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh yeah, oops

    I even had to rule on that once, and I ruled it correctly, what was I thinking?
    (attempts to remove foot from mouth) lol

    -chaosruler
  16. novastar

    novastar New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    They are Graveyard Triggers and will not be negated by Jinzo/Royal Decree.

    Jinzo/Royal Decree work exactly as Imperial Order.
  17. CraniumX

    CraniumX New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't think this would work, obviously, with WMC's dealing damage being a "cost", but yet again, card wording has led me to asking another question...

    Could it possibly be abused during your Main Phase by Emergency Provisions, since the text on Emergency Provisions says "send", the same as on WMC?
  18. daivahataka

    daivahataka Gold Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    No, as WMC has to be sent to the graveyard via its own effect, not that of another card, in order to inflict the damage.
  19. CraniumX

    CraniumX New Member

    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's what I obviously thought, but heck, I'm always looking for those little eccentric loopholes to take advantage of. ;)
  20. masterwoo0

    masterwoo0 NINJA4LIFE

    Trophy Points:
    36
    Imperial Order cannot negate cost, but it can negate effects.

    While IO is active, you only count turns that WMC has been on the field. IO does not prevent you from sending WMC to the Graveyard (due to it being a cost), but it stops the damage that the "effect" creates.

Share This Page