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Jowgen vs Lava Golem

Discussion in 'Rules Questions (YGO)' started by Bigred Blues, Jan 3, 2005.

  1. Bigred Blues

    Bigred Blues New Member

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    Currently this has come up as a subject of Debate on another yugioh site, the reason is beyond me...

    Player B has a Face up Jowgen the Spiritualist and one other monster
    Player A wants to Tribute Jowgen the Spiritualist and Player B's other monster for the Lava Golem in his hand.

    Now one side of the argument is Jowgen wouldn’t stop Lava Golem because of Last Turn vs. Jowgen. And that Jowgen wouldn’t stop Player A from Tributing, and Jowgen would be in the Graveyard before Lava Golem hit the field.

    The other side says Jowgen would prevent Player A from even tributing or activating an effect that specifically Special Summons.

    It’s an interesting debate, can I have your opinions?
  2. Maester Bacman

    Maester Bacman New Member

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    I would go with the other side, preventing Player A from even trying to Special Summon. You can't pay Life Points to Special Summon even if nothing happens, you can't remove monsters to Special Summon. I think you couldn't offer monsters as a Tribute to Special Summon. All because of Jowgen.
  3. PsychoDemon

    PsychoDemon New Member

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    This Is My Opinion. First Thing Is The Tributing Of The Monsters. Meaning They're No Longer On The Field. The Second Thing Is Special Summoning. Since Jowgen Is No Longer On The Field I Think That This Would Be A Legal Way Of Getting Rid Of Jowgen. Plz Correct Me If Im Wrong!
  4. John Danker

    John Danker Administrator

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    I've posted a question to the judge's list on this topic. We'll see how soon they get to it. I'll be very interested to see the why or why nots of the answer.

    Personally, right now without a written ruling I'd allow it.

    Let's take a look at the text of Jowgen The Spiritualist:

    Jowgen The Spiritualist

    Randomly discard 1 card from your hand to the Graveyard to destroy all Special Summoned monsters on the field. In addition, as long as this card remains face-up on the field, no monsters can be Special Summoned.

    Now lets take a look at the text of another card that prevents special summons, Royal Oppression:

    Royal Oppression

    Pay 800 Life Points to negate a Special Summon of a monster and the effect of a card that Special Summons a monster and destroy it. Both you and your opponent can use this effect as long as this card
    remains face-up on the field.

    See the difference here?
    Jowgen says nothing about negating the effect of a card that special summons a monster as Royal Oppression does, it only talks about the actual special summon.

    I look at it this way. If I were to activate Black Illusion Ritual and choose Jowgen The Spiritualist sending it to the graveyard then Jowgen would no longer be on the field to negate the special summon of Relinquished. I'd allow that situation. I see Lava Golem as Black Illusion Ritual and Relinquished wrapped up together.

    Lava Golem's summoning requirements are that your opponent have two monsters to tribute. It isn't summoned until those two monsters leave the field. Based on the text of all cards I've talked about I'd rule it at this time as a legal play.

    We shall see!
  5. masterwoo0

    masterwoo0 NINJA4LIFE

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    Isn't the fact that Lava Golem's effect states that you must tribute 2 monster's on your "opponents" side of the field (one being Jowgen) before he can be Special Summoned, playing a role in this as well? His effect only resolves in him being summoned if he successfully removes 2 opponents monsters and Jowgen would be in the Graveyard before the controller could make use of its effect.
  6. John Danker

    John Danker Administrator

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    Yes, I think that's what I've stated in the previous post....granted, in a lot more words and I tried to back up my thoughts with highlighted card text and the reasoning behind my opinion.
  7. John Danker

    John Danker Administrator

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    and....the survey SAYS!

    (From today's judge's list)

    1) My opponent has face-up "Jowgen the Spiritualist" and a face-down monster
    on his side of the field. Can I offer both of them as a tribute to Special
    Summon "Lava Golem" to the field (since "Jowgen" would then be in the Graveyard)
    or would "Jowgen"'s effect prevent me from even declaring the Special Summon?

    2) If the opponent had "The Last Warrior from Another Planet" instead of "Jowgen
    the Spiritualist" on the above example, would the results be the same?

    - Andrew


    1. Yes you can. Because you Tribute "Jowgen the Spiritualist" it will no longer
    be on the field to prevent "Lava Golem" from being Special Summoned.

    2. Yes you can, for the same reason.

    Curtis Schultz
    Official UDE Netrep
  8. Blue-Eyes Black

    Blue-Eyes Black New Member

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    Guess I would have lost money on that one.

    So I guess you could remove 1 DARK and 1 LIGHT from the Graveyard in order to ATTEMPT to Special Summon one of the big Chaos monsters? Because apparently Jowgen does not stop the opponent from trying to Summon; it just stops the Summon itself.
  9. densetsu_x

    densetsu_x .

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    1) Hey, I asked that question on the list, and didn't get the response in e-mail... go figure, though I am supposed to.

    2) No, you cannot remove the 1 DARK/LIGHT to attempt a Special Summon. The whole issue here is because Jowgen was on the field. As mentioned earlier, you cannot pay 1000 with "Magical Scientist" if Jowgen is on the field. The "Lava Golem" scenario is different since you are removing "Jowgen" from play.

    - A
  10. Maester Bacman

    Maester Bacman New Member

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    Then, could this then be possible?

    If my opponent has 3 monsters, one of them being a face-up Jowgen the Spiritualist, I can't tribute to Special Summon my Lava Golem if Jowgen the Spiritualist is not one of the tributed mosters, otherwise I can.

    Scaary :eek:
  11. spotsknight

    spotsknight New Member

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    Not only is this possible this is exactly true!

    Spot's Knight

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