Last Will and Priority // Levia Dragon

S

soulwarrior

New Member
Hi there,

a duelist from Germany came up with a very interesting idea:

-> play Last Will
--> now the card creates a 'state' // whenever a monster on your side of the field is sent to your graveyard, you can special summon another monster from your deck with ATK <= 1500

-> now offer a monster on your side of the field as a Tribute to special summon Levia-Dragon - Daedalus to the field

the question is:

Can I now use priority to use the effect of the Levia Dragon before a monster is special summoned due to the effect of Last Will?

Therefore, FIRST send all cards to the Grave except the Dragon. THEN special summon a monster with Last Will's effect. o_O

MY OPINION:

I thought no.
The 'state' created by Last Will can be compared with an continuous effect which is already on the field.
It doesn't use the chain and will be resolved BEFORE any other effect after the summon can be activated.

It's like when there's an already active Level Limit - Area B on the field and you summon Spell Canceller
-> FIRST apply the effect of the already active continuous Spell Card (switch SC to Defense Position)
-> THEN apply the effect of the summoned Spell Canceller (negate all Spell Cards effects)

soul :cool:
 
J

John Danker

Administrator
The "state" that Last Will creates lasts until the end of the turn. If Last Will's effect is not used during that turn Last Will resolves without effect.

In the situation you've stated you could use Last Will's effect after tributing for Levia-Dragon but it would have to be at that point....OR....wait and use Levial-Dragon's effect and IF Levia-Dragon's effect destroyed another monster on your side of the field you could use Last Will's effect after resolution of Levia-Dragon's effect.

What you can't do is claim Last Will's effect at any random time in the same turn it's been played. It must follow a monster being sent to the graveyard.

Last Will's effect doesn't have a timing issue such as Peten the Dark Clown though. It wants to resolve when you tribute for Levia-Dragon but will wait and start a new chain after the summon of Levia-Dragon.

I hope I wasn't too "wordy" in that explination. If you need further clarification by all means please say so.
 
D

densetsu_x

.
Actually from the wording on the card

Last Will
Normal Spell

You can only use this card's effect once, and only during this turn. When a monster on your side of the field is sent to your Graveyard, you can Special Summon 1 monster with an ATK of 1500 points or less from your Deck. Then shuffle your Deck.

And the first ruling:

• You don't select a monster as a target when you activate or resolve "Last Will". "Last Will" creates a state whereby, the next time during that turn when your monster is sent from your side of the field to your Graveyard, you may Special Summon 1 monster from your Deck using "Last Will's" state. "Last Will's" state then ends.

That tells me that there is a "timing issue" of sorts that you only have 1 chance to use "Last Will"... the next time a monster a sent from the field to the Graveyard and that if you miss it then, you don't get the chance to use it later in the turn. Because it has the word "Can" in the spell text that means it's optional... that you don't have to special summon the monster (like with "Giant Rat") but if you don't use it when the situation arises, you've missed it. So in his example, he'd have to bring the monster out when Levia-Dragon was tribute summoned or not at all. Now if he summoned Levia-Dragon and then activated Last Will, assuming he has another monster on the field, he could then waste the field and then special summon a monster. But given the wording, I don't think you can "choose" after which circumstance that a monster is sent to the grave when you can use the effect. The state lasts only until the first time and then you use it or lose it.
 
J

John Danker

Administrator
You may very well be right.

The terms "floating condition" and the fact that it's an optional effect lead me to believe you could claim Last Will's effect when a second monster was sent to the graveyard rather then when the first was.

<Quote from the FAQ>

The state will expire at the end of the turn, or when it is used, whichever comes first. So if you Special Summon using "Last Will’s" state, then the state is gone, and if the end of the turn arrives without using "Last Will’s" state, then the state is gone.

<End Quote>

This part of the FAQ also lead me to believe one can use later in the turn when a second monster is sent to the graveyard. Notice the term Use. Since it's an optional effect, if I don't use that effect the after the first monster is sent to the graveyard....by the wording in the part of the FAQ I've quoted above, I should be able to use it after the second monster is sent to the graveyard.

Notice also the sentence following the term "Use" it says that IF you special summon (which is when you use Last Will's effect" then the state is gone. Logically, if I don't summon using Last Will's effect, the state is not gone yet then.

This creates enough doubt in my mind. I've searched the new and old judge's sites and haven't found a ruling on this as of yet. I've posted a question to the judge board concerning it.
 
S

soulwarrior

New Member
First I want to thank the two of you for your answers. ^^

This card is now starting to confuse me.. *lol*
It has some sort of timing, but I still don't think that it uses the chain.
If it would use the chain, it would be kinda strange, cause it can also 'kick in' in the Damage Step. o_O

I want to make the example ABSOLUTELY clear:

You have ONE monster on your side of the field

you offer THIS ONE MONSTER as a Tribute for the Levia Dragon.
Now you use your priority... and so on... and so on...

The problem is:
Does the Last Will effect automatically kick in when I want to (after the offering of the monster and BEFORE I activate the effect of the Dragon).

OR does it go on the chain being Chain Link 1 with the Dragon's effect being Chain Link 2
-> If so (which would make no sense to me, cause the Levia-Dragon's effect is a cost effect or whatever.. it's a speed 1 effect *lol* and you would CHAIN a Speed 1 effect to another effect), FIRST the cards would be sent to Grave, THEN a monster is special summoned to the field...

Interesting question, isn't it?

soul :cool:
 
J

John Danker

Administrator
In answer to your specific quesiton

Last Will's effect would need to be used after the summon of Levia-Dragon.

You could not claim Last Will's effect after using Levia-Dragon's effect.

As I said though, after Last Will is activated, and when the monster is tributed, Last Will's effect wants to be used but it cannont interupt the tribute summon, so, Last Will's effect begins a chain after Levia-Dragon has been summoned.

The rest of our little debate has yet to be resolved
 
S

soulwarrior

New Member
Thanks. :)

So the newly special summoned monster would be kinda useless..
'cause if I use the effect of the Levia-Dragon, it would also go to the Graveyard... :(

I'm waiting for the resolution of this puzzle. ;)
At least an interesting question... ^^

soul :cool:
 
J

John Danker

Administrator
Curtis explains it like this in the following post taken from the old Yahoo judge's list.......


From: "Gary" <garmartar@w...>
Date: Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:23 pm
Subject: Last Will and Monster Gate Combo!


I have search the archives and did not find and answer to my
question.

If a player has a monster on the field (or a token) and he activates
Last Will first, resolves it, and then activates Monster Gate. Does the player
get both Monster Gates effect as well as Last Will's effect?

I look at Monster Gates effect as a "cost" so the player should not
get be able to get both affects for the same monster. This combo is
used very effectively in one turn kill decks with Catapult Turtle,
Reasoning and Magical Scientist. With 3 Reasonings, 3 Last Wills,
and 3 Monster Gates its not hard to pull off!


Answer:

The effect of "Monster Gate" Tributes the monster as a cost.

At this time, the "Last Will" wants to activate, but its effect will need to
start a new chain, so it will wait until "Monster Gate" has resolved before it
will activate.

So you would resolve "Monster Gate," and then immediately afterwards you will
activate "Last Will's" effect of Special Summoning a monster.


This is similar to offering "Sangan" as the monster Tributed for "Monster
Gate's" cost. "Sangan's" effect will need to start a new chain, so it waits
until the current chain with "Monster Gate" finishes resolving.

---------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrep
CurtisSchultz_Netrep@h...
 
S

soulwarrior

New Member
Looks like everything's clear now. :)

Thanks for your advice! ;)
So the Spell Speed of the Last Will effect must be 1 and therefore it starts a new chain and isn't chained to the effect offering a monster.

soul :cool:
 
J

John Danker

Administrator
Well, technically you can't chain to a tribute, so no, it doesn't chain to the tribute of a monster. Last Will's effect is triggered at that time when the monster is tributed but can't resolve at that time so it starts a chain after the summon of Levia-Dragon.
 
D

densetsu_x

.
So going back to the original question you had. If you had 2 monsters on your side of the field, and you tribute one to summon "Levia-Dragon" then would be the best time to activate "Last Will". This way you can use LD's effect... send your other monster to the graveyard, and then special summon another monster and have 2 free attacks at your opponent.
 
S

soulwarrior

New Member
@densetsu_x:

Yes, that's clear to me... :)

@John Danker:

You're obviously right.
It's some sort of strange typo I had all the day, I'm thinking about something and because of the so-caused lack of communication I'm writing nonsense... *lol*

Of course you can't chain to the offering of a monster... o_O
~ slapping myself ~

soul :cool:
 
S

spotsknight

New Member
The least confusing way to do what you want is tribute summon Levia; play Last Will then use Levia's effect which will destroy your other monster and allow you to activate Last Will's effect.

Spot's Knight
 
S

soulwarrior

New Member
^^ Thanks for the tip, but this was always clear to me.

The question was if you use LW on the tributed monster, can you FIRST resolve Levia's Effect and THEN special summon for Last Will. :)

And this question's already been answered, I can't.... ^^

soul :cool:
 
S

soulwarrior

New Member
Here's a follow-up question:

I activate Last Will in my Main Phase 1

I offer one monster on my side of the field as a Tribute to special summon Zaborg, the Thunder Monarch, I choose Exiled Force as a target for LW's effect.

So, FIRST, immediately after the summon (so this means Zaborg's already on the field), the Exiled Force is special summoned due to LW's effect, my opponent may chain to the effect, but he cannot activate a card like Torrential Tribute as a response to the summon.

At least that's what I think.
The chain then resolves, the Exiled's now on the field, I have Priority, since I'm the Turn Player and so Zaborg's Effect will 'automatically use it' and start another chain.

Now my opponent can response to the summon of Zaborg (or the Exiled) with cards like Torrential or he can chain to Zaborg's effect.

When I had a first look at this, it all made a lot of sense.
But there are some different questions coming up...

If my opponent chains to Last Will's effect with Ring of Destruction, he could destroy Zaborg, although his effect hasn't been activated!
On the other hand, he can response to Zaborg's summon and activate Torrential Tribute and therefore, Exiled would be destroyed and I had no chance to activate its effect.

This is still some kinda strange to me, it's one of the very rare cases when I would not be able to use Priority to start a chain with the effect of a newly summoned monster. o_O


Am I missing something?

soul :cool:
 
R

Raijinili

New Member
I dunno, I would just chain Levia Dragon's triggered effect to Last Will's triggered, seeing as how they are both trigger effects.
 
M

MadHatter

New Member
Here's how I see this Levia - Last Will situation:

Umi is face up. Player A plays Last Will and then tributes a monster for Levia.

Now, Player A has to choose whether or not he/she will use Last Will's effect.

Option 1: Player A does not use Last Will's effect. Player A still has priority due to Levia*. Player A may use Last Will's effect later in this turn if another monster goes from Player A's side of the field to Player A's graveyard**.

Option 2: Player A uses Last Will's effect. Last Will's effect becomes block 1 of the chain. Player B may chain to this, say with MST targetting Umi (or with Ring targetting Levia.) Resolve backwards. MST destroys Umi and then Player A summons their monster. I think this actually answers the original question -- yes, using Last Will's effect does give up priority.

Levia's effect, spell speed 1, could not be chained to Last Will's effect of special summoning a monster which is also spell speed 1.

Nor could Last Will's effect be chained to Levia' effect, since activating Levia's effect first means Last Will missed it's timing.

The open questions:
*Is choosing NOT to use Last Will's effect chainable? I'd say no.

**Is Last Will a floating effect which can be used later or must it be used the first time it's condition is met. Based on the history of the card as I know it, I'd say floating, but the alternative is not an unreasonable thought.

My inflated $.03
 
J

John Danker

Administrator
<soft chuckle> It does seem to be an open question yet doesn't it? I looked at the FAQ more closely, that didn't help a bit. The following are two paragraphs taken from the entry of Last Will on the FAQ....
<FAQ quotes>

You don't select a monster as a target when you activate or resolve "Last Will". "Last Will" creates a state whereby, the next time during that turn when your monster is sent from your side of the field to your Graveyard, you may Special Summon 1 monster from your Deck using "Last Will's" state. "Last Will's" state then ends.

The state will expire at the end of the turn, or when it is used, whichever comes first. So if you Special Summon using "Last Will's" state, then the state is gone, and if the end of the turn arrives without using "Last Will's" state, then the state is gone.

They seem to contradict one another don't they?

I'm trying to think of a card effect that has a floating effect when activated and is optional when triggered to compare it to. The only thing I can come up with off the top of my head would be Soul Exchange.....no rulings for that on the FAQ <pondering>

So if I had activated Soul Exchange and already had a monster face up on the field....and so did my opponent, if I go to tribute for Cannon Soldier's effect must I use my opponent's monster as a tribute at that time or lose the effect of Soul Exchange? Or could I tribute my own monster first, then activate Cannon Soldier's effect later in the turn using Soul Exchange's floating effect and tribute my opponent's monster at that time?

That's the only sim. situation I can think of at this time.
 
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