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Phantom of Chaos, Horus LV6

Discussion in 'Rules Questions (YGO)' started by Dasher, Mar 2, 2008.

  1. Dasher

    Dasher New Member

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    I have pretty straightforward question. If I copy Horus LV6 with Phantom of Chaos and kill some monster is it possible to send Phantom of Chaos to the Graveyard in the End Phase to summon Horus LV8?
  2. slither

    slither Alex (1981 - 2008)<br />Slithery When Wet

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    Yes you can do that, since the effect doesn't check for parameters while resolving.
  3. Maruno

    Maruno Council of Heroes Staff Member

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    I'm not so sure about that. It depends exactly what it meant by "until the End Phase". The way I read it, Phantom of Chaos stops copying the monster during the non-existent gap between Main Phase 2 and End Phase. Therefore it's not copying Horus LV6 at the time it would level itself up (the End Phase), and thus it's impossible.
  4. skey23

    skey23 Council of Heroes

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    The answer to the initial question is yes, you can choose to send the copied "Phantom of Chaos" to the Graveyard to bring out "Horus LV8".

    Effects that happen 'during the End Phase' or 'until the end of the turn' do not automagically end once you begin the End Phase. You, as the Turn Player, have complete control over when you want those effects to end. So, you can choose to utilize the effect of the copied "Phantom of Chaos" before you choose to have his copy effect end for the turn.
  5. Maruno

    Maruno Council of Heroes Staff Member

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    I'll agree that effects that occur "during the End Phase" are ones you can decide exactly when to activate. But "until the end of the turn" means just that: the end of the turn. That's the point after the End Phase and before the next Draw Phase, which technically doesn't exist. You can't choose to switch said effect off halfway through the End Phase, because that isn't "the end of the turn".

    However, Phantom of Chaos says neither of these things. It says "until the End Phase". English is suitably vague to allow multiple interpretations. Mine that is "until" means "any time before", as in "keep going forwards until you reach the roundabout" (you're not going to continue forwards over half the roundabout, and then think about turning left or whatever, are you?).

    Are there any examples one way or the other?
  6. SoilentG

    SoilentG CoG iTrader

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    I'm reading it the exact same way as Maruno... "until" means once the End Phase starts it no longer has that name... however, I bow to your knowledge of the game Simon... would you please address the "until"?
  7. DarkLogicianOfCaos

    DarkLogicianOfCaos Eschew Obfuscation

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    The Turn Player gets to decide what effects to "deal with" in the End Phase.

    Example....Cost Down says "until the End Phase" (your contension)
    But Thousand Energy speaks of destroying all affected Monsters "during the End Phase"
    yet, the TP decides which happens first. Can't do that if one happens at the beginning and the other during, unless they mean the same thing.

    • [Re: Thousand Energy] If you use "Cost Down" to make a Level 4 monster into a Level 2 monster, Summon it, and use "Thousand Energy", during the End Phase you can choose which effect happens first, so you can restore it to Level 4 first by ending "Cost Down"'s effect, and then it will not be destroyed by the effect of "Thousand Energy".

    At
  8. SoilentG

    SoilentG CoG iTrader

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    good enough for me Mini-Simon, thx.
  9. DarkLogicianOfCaos

    DarkLogicianOfCaos Eschew Obfuscation

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    Wow!! That is one of the highest compliments I could ask for. Thanks. I have a lot to live up to there, but he has been my mentor and I am proud to be his disciple.
  10. Dasher

    Dasher New Member

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    Thank you all for posting, I'm happy that my deck didn't lose one of most easiest and most deadly combo :) If you have time you can look at it in Advanced Decks section.
  11. Deathjester

    Deathjester New Member

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    So unlike "Level Up!", there's no point of reference to check for if a "LV" monster (or a "Phantom of Chaos" copying one) fulfills its condition to summon the next "LV" monster?
  12. Digital Jedi

    Digital Jedi Administrator Staff Member

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    It differs because Horus LV8 isn't an effect in that sense, it's a summoning condition. The condition was to use the effect of a card named Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6, which you did. It was the effect of card named Horus LV6 when you activated it. What it changed to after it left the field will be irrelevant at that point, because you already successfully activated the effect of a card name Horus LV6.

    With Level Up!, it's different because your sending the monster to the Graveyard first (as a cost), then referencing the text of the card you sent upon resolution.
  13. Ledah

    Ledah New Member

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    So...



    You could activate level up, but no monster will be special summoned.

    And you will end up just losing 1 monster.

    What an odd effect.
  14. Maruno

    Maruno Council of Heroes Staff Member

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    That's how it happens.

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