Priority v. 1.1

Priority v. 1.1

By Michael Palmer

It's come to my attention that many of the questions being asked on our forums here at netrep.net have been the same questions regarding priority and specific monsters and how they interact. First, I'll say the golden rule that no one seems to understand as of right now. A monster does not have priority! YOU THE PLAYER HAVE PRIORITY!!! Some people just don't understand that so the first thing we always say while answering questions is "This monster doesn't have priority, no monster has priority. The player has the priority." So make sure you rephrase your questions before posting them if you ever ask about a monster's priority.

With that pushed aside, I thought up a few situations with certain monsters that you could use their effects with while using YOUR priority:

Player A summons Tribe-Infecting Virus to the field.
Player B responds with Trap Hole.
Player A choose to use turn priority to activate Tribe's effect.
Player B's Trap Hole is then added on the chain as link 2.

Chain:
Link 1: Tribe-Infecting Virus's effect is activated.
Link 2: Trap Hole is activated.

Resolution:
Link 2: Trap Hole first resolves since it was the last card on the chain and destroys Tribe-Infecting Virus.
Link 1: Then Tribe's effect resolves since it was not negated destroying all monsters of the specific type called.

Reason: I know what many of you are thinking.  How can a card resolve fully if it's no longer present on the field at resolution?  Well, to put it quite simply, it's like chaining MST to Raigeki.  Even though you destroyed Raigeki in the chain, it's effect was never negated so it will resolve as normal even though it was destroyed in the resolution step before it's resolution would take place.  The same goes with Tribe and any other monster, it's effect is being chained to with the trap card being responded with.  Since you can't chain to a summon, the trap card would have to be chained to the cost effect of the monster.  Since the trigger effect is spell speed 1, it would have to be the first link in the chain.  Then you add on the speed 2 effect of the trap card, in this case it was Trap Hole, and it destroy Tribe first and then Tribe's effect destroys all monsters of the specific type called.

Player A summons Magicial Scientist.
Player B activates Ring of Destruction.
Player A activates Scientist's effect by paying 1000 Life Points.
Player B's Ring of Destruction then resolves destroying Scientist and dealing 300 points of damage to both players.
Player B's Scientist's effect resolves special summoning his fusion monster to the field.

Chain:
Link 1: Magical Scientist's effect is activated.
Link 2: Ring of Destruction is activated.

Resolution:
Link 2: Ring of Destruction resolves destroying Magical Scientist and dealing 300 points of damage to both players.
Link 1: Magical Scientist's effect resolves special summoning a Fusion monster.

Reason: Basically see the same as TIV.

Player B has Skill Drain face-up on the field.
Player A tribute summons Jinzo.
Player B's Skill Drain is already active and is a continuous effect.
Player A's Jinzo is negated upon the successful summoning.

With this it's a simple time stamp effect.  Since Skill Drain was in effect first on the field, Jinzo's effect is negated.

Player B has a face up Level Limit Area B on the field.
Player A tribute summons Spell Canceller.

Same issue as above, since Level Limit was in effect first, it will turn Spell Canceller to defense position.  Then Spell Canceller's effect will trigger, negating Level Limit, I'll also add to this, since Level Limit is negated that DOES NOT mean you can change the position of Spell Canceller, you can not change the postions of a monster summoned that same turn, so it'll stay in defense until it's either destroyed or until you can turn it your next turn.  You however can change positions any other monster you may control at that time since Level Limit is now negated by Spell Canceller.

Reason: In this case, I'm demonstrating that continuous effects take priority over other effects.  What I showed you is that a continuous effect that's on the field will take priority over resolution against another continuous effect introduced due to it being in effect first.  In this case, since Skill Drain was active first, it's effect will effect Jinzo first before Jinzo could effect Skill Drain.  Since Jinzo is negated, Skill Drain is not negated by Jinzo's effect.  In the second demonstration I showed you Spell Canceller Vs. Level Limit Area B, the end result is Spell Canceller goes to defense mode and then negates Level Limit, the simultaneous effects would go on chain as I showed above.

Player A tribute summons Mobius The Frost Monarch and targets two spell/trap cards on the field.
Player B responds with Torrential Tribute.
Player A's Mobius The Frost Monarch resolves since it's effect is activated as soon as hits the field and the targetted spell or trap cards that were targetted upon summoning are destroyed. If Torrential Tribute is one of these targetted cards, it does not negate Torrential Tribute.
Player B's Torrential Tribute then resolves destroying all of the monsters on the field, including Mobius The Frost Monarch.

Chain:
Link 1: Mobius's effect is activated targetting up two spell/trap cards on the field.
Link 2: Torrential Tribue is activated.

Resolution:
Link 2: Torrential Tribue resolves destroying all monsters on the field.
Link 1: Mobius's effect resolves destroying the two spell/trap cards that were designated as the targets upon activation (summoning).

Reason: This one should be apparent, the effect activates as soon as it's summoned, and this means that as soon as Mobius hits the field, the player controlling Mobius gets to select up to two targets with it's effect. Then Player B has the right to respond with a trap after the selection is made. Mobius's effect would resolve as normal and than the trap card activated in response to him will resolve as normal.

Here's a tad bit different of a situation...

Player A's D.D. Warrior Lady attacks Player B's Face Down Card.
Player B flips their Face Down Card and reveals their own D.D. Warrior Lady.
Damage Calculation is reached and Player A takes 100 points of damage for running into D.D.'s 1600 defense with a 1500 ATK.
The question being is who gets the choice to remove first?

This one is quite simple, the turn player would have first choice on whether or not to remove. Player A would be the person to make the first choice on this, if they choose not remove, than it goes to Player B who has the choice now with their D.D. Warrior Lady. If they choose to remove than both monsters are removed from play. If not, than nothing happens and both monsters stay on the field, Player B's in face up defense position and Player A's in face up attack position.

That's enough for cards you would have "priority" with. It should be a little more evident that cards with normal face up effects would have their effect active on the field before any trap can be activated in response to the summon (not chained to the summon since another Golden Rule is that summons have no spell speed, which means for you new guys, they're non-chainable).

CARDS THAT A PLAYER HAS NO PRIORITY WITH:

If you read the above, you'll notice that that means that what is coming next is cards that you have no priority over to activate certain effects they control. First I'll talk about the one card that almost everyone wants to confuse it would seem.

Player A summons Breaker The Magical Warrior
Player B activates Bottomless Trap Hole
Player A chooses to use priority... but wait, what does that mean!?

Chain:
Link 1: Breaker is summoned, activating his effect to add the counter.
Link 2: Bottomless Trap Hole is activated.

Resolution:
Link 2: Bottomless Trap Hole resolves destroying and removing Breaker from the game.
Link 1: Since Breaker is no longer face-up on the field, the counter cannot be added to the card.

Reason: Breaker's effect is very tricky and some people don't understand how it's tricky. Breaker basically almost has two effects. The first is the addition of the counter, without this counter you cannot activate the secondary effect, so it's essential. The face up effect of Breaker as soon as it's summoned is the addition of the counter, not it's "breaking" effect itself. So the only priority you have when an opponent responds to the summon of your Breaker is the addition of the counter. If you look at the above chain you'll see that Breaker's counter is never added because Breaker is no longer face-up on the field to recieve the counter.

OTHER EFFECTS AND PRIORITY:

This goes towards the Giant Orc summoning/Sac to Catapult Turtle Vs. Torrential Tribue.  It's still my reasoning and my opinion that you could sacrifice the monster to Catapult Turtle, since when you look at the above chains, you see that it's always the trap being chained to a speed 1 effect.

What would happen in this case is the situation would look like this:

NOTE: This is still being debated, I've got many people I know who are very good judges agreeing with me and others who are very good disagreeing, it's a very hot topic, but I hope to have something on it soon (I've already started looking into it).

Player A summons Giant Orc.
Player B activates Torrential Tribute.
Player A uses turn priority to activate the trigger effect of Catapult Turtle.

Here's the chain:
Link 1: Catapult Turtle's effect is activated, the cost of the effect is sending Giant Orc to the graveyard, which is done at activation.
Link 2: Torrential Tribute is activated.

Resolution:
Link 2: Torrential Tribute resolves destroying all monsters on the field.
Link 1: Since Catapult Turtle's effect was never negated, it would resolve as normal dealing 1100 points of direct damage to Player B.

Reasoning: I'm calling this reasoning for a reason, if someone comes up with it not being true, I want them to understand my completel reasoning behind my explanation.  If a monster is considered face-up on the field after the summon, and if priority chains are the way I and many others have described them in the previous thread, then Giant Orc would in fact be on the field for the sacrifice to Catapult Turtle.  Since the player with turn priority can choose activate any effect, including trigger effects, it would only make sense that they could activate Catapult Turtle's effect.  Since the sacrificing of Giant Orc is a cost, it has already been tributed and destroyed by the time Torrential Tribute (which is chained to the trigger effect) resolves.  Since Catapult was not negated (much like the Tribe example and Magical Scientist example above) then it would resolve as normal dealing 1100 points of damage to the opposing player.

I see no reason why it would be any other way and I see on reason why it would be contradicted within the game, it would only confuse even the most expert of players into second guessing every aspect of the game, it's situations like this that tend to cause people to quit, it causes massive confusion with the game, and it just really isn't very cost worthy if you get my point.

I'll look into maybe getting a few answers from UDE about the proposed chain, but for now I'm leaving this in the essay as another example of turn priority.  It might be contested, but I still have yet to see a very good reason (the one reason someone gave only strengthens the argument I have).

In any case, that's all the updates I'm doing to this, most other things can be asked about in this thread.  If you have any questions or beef about something I've exlained, feel free to explain yourself, that's what this is all about, it's to help others reach a better understanding about this aspect of the game and without that help, we're doomed to confusion and uncertainty for the rest of our lives... well... for the rest of the time we're playing Yu-Gi-Oh!

 

[novastar]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

Player B has Skill Drain face-up on the field.
Player A tribute summons Jinzo.
Player B's Skill Drain is already active and is a continuous effect.
Player A's Jinzo is negated upon the successful summoning.

Chain:
Link 1: Jinzo's effect is activated.
Link 2: Skill Drain's effect is activated.

Resolution:
Link 2: Skill Drain's effect resolves first since it was the last effect on the chain.
Link 1: Jinzo's effect resolves, but is now negated by Skill Drain.

Reason: In this case, I'm demonstrating that continuous effects take priority over other effects.  What I showed you is that a continuous effect that's on the field will take priority over resolution against another continuous effect introduced.  In this case, since Skill Drain was active first, it's effect will resolve first in the chain that I showed above.  Since Jinzo is negated, Skill Drain is not negated by Jinzo's effect.  In the second demonstration I showed you Spell Canceller Vs. Level Limit Area B, the end result is Spell Canceller goes to defense mode and then negates Level Limit, the simultaneous effects would go on chain as I showed above.

Woah woah! This is not correct.

There is no chain here. SEGOC only applies to Triggers (auto-activated effects), man this acronym causes so many problems. There is no chaining going on here, It is a timstamped application.

So if [Skill Drain] is already active and [Jinzo] is summoned, you apply the effect in timestamp order. Since [Skill Drain] has an earlier timestamp, it is applied first (negating monster effects), since [Jinzo]'s effect is now negated, it cannot become active.

Once again, continuous effects that clash, do not at any time form a chain whatsoever.

What would happen in this case is the situation would look like this:

Player A summons Giant Orc.
Player B activates Torrential Tribute.
Player A uses turn priority to activate the trigger effect of Catapult Turtle.

Here's the chain:
Link 1: Catapult Turtle's effect is activated, the cost of the effect is sending Giant Orc to the graveyard, which is done at activation.
Link 2: Torrential Tribute is activated.

Resolution:
Link 2: Torrential Tribute resolves destroying all monsters on the field.
Link 1: Since Catapult Turtle's effect was never negated, it would resolve as normal dealing 1100 points of direct damage to Player B.

This as was discussed in the earlier thread, should not be correct. You can only use the Spell Speed 1 effect of the monster summoned. You cannot use any other Spell Speed 1 effect.

Manual Spell Speed 1's are not, in most cases, intended to be used for responding. Cost Effect Priority, is a special provision, for the monster summoned, but no other Spell Speed 1 (manual effect).

 

[helpoemer316]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

[quote author=novastar]
Woah woah! This is not correct.

There is no chain here. SEGOC only applies to Triggers (auto-activated effects), man this acronym causes so many problems. There is no chaining going on here, It is a timstamped application.

So if [Skill Drain] is already active and [Jinzo] is summoned, you apply the effect in timestamp order. Since [Skill Drain] has an earlier timestamp, it is applied first (negating monster effects), since [Jinzo]'s effect is now negated, it cannot become active.

Once again, continuous effects that clash, do not at any time form a chain whatsoever.[/quote]

I actually was second guessing myself at the time I wrote that. I had written it the way that was right to begin with and I ended up changing it to match the format of everything else, I'm thinking too much right now and my brain is fried from having to work (offline wise), manage the site, manage the forums, try and think up 50 million possible priority ways from Sunday... lol.

I'm not disagreeing with this, I agree with this, however, I will still disagree with the other for now, this is mainly a way for us to all branch out and discuss and try to understand the situation at hand even better. I'll update the other issue and I'll add another note (which I think I said it was debatable) in the area of the Catapult Turtle issue, I still want discussion on the topic.

 

[novastar]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

I'm not disagreeing with this, I agree with this, however, I will still disagree with the other for now, this is mainly a way for us to all branch out and discuss and try to understand the situation at hand even better.  I'll update the other issue and I'll add another note (which I think I said it was debatable) in the area of the Catapult Turtle issue, I still want discussion on the topic.

I totally understand, I am simply giving my thoughts, in an effort to help. I have spent a great deal of time researching these types of mechanics.

To add to the discussion, in 99% of the cases, throughout the turn, every action/event/chain resolution can be responed to (lets leave 1% for anomolies). They create a response timing, and a resulting Response Chain can be formed.

Assume that I am specifically refering to manually activated effects, not Triggers.

In general Spell Speed 1 effects (or cards) are not intended to be used for this timing. They generally have no timing at all. they are used to start chains, not for responding or chaining. They are supposed to be activated when the Chain Block is empty, and no event/action is outstanding. Timing is reserved for Spell Speed 2 or higher effects.

Cost Effect Priority, was a provision created, to allow Spell Speed 1 effects to be used for responding, but only at the time of summoning, and only from the monster summoned.

 

[helpoemer316]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

That's the most sense that anyone has been able to make of the opposite end of the situation, not bad. Makes sense, and is very logical and fits in with the game mechanics (slightly) but it does show that there was a need for effects to be able to be activated in response to traps in some way, due to effects being legally present on the field immediately after summoning.

But it doesn't really match up with what essentially priority was to begin with, the fact that one player has the ability to activate a card. Now with summonings having no spell speed is arguable that it's not considered an action to require priority to shift, and even if that were the case, then the chain would end with the trap card or other spell speed 2 effect being activated instead of the monsters and since the monster's effect is speed 1 you couldn't chain it and if priority is passed soon after summoning then you'd have to chain with something if your opponent did in fact activate a card in response.

So it only naturally makes sense that a summon is not an action that would require the passing of priority (unlike chains and such where you must after activating a card in a chain). That would mean the activation of a trap in response to a summon is always illegal, and it becomes legal only if the turn player chooses to activate a cards effect or to not activate anything at all (since the trap activated still met it's conditions, bah, that even adds more to the confusion).

You see my point in how you can explain it? It's not a matter of logical, but it's a matter of one game mechanic that was changed completely to allow something, that's what you're saying. And then all you can basicaly do to explain it to someone is just say "Because Konami said so!" You can't explain it using actual game mechanics.

 

[beautifulsazuka]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

Player A summons Tribe-Infecting Virus to the field.
Player B responds with Trap Hole.
Player A choose to use turn priority to activate Tribe's effect.
Player B's Trap Hole is then added on the chain as link 2.

I think this situation should be rewritten as follows:

Player A summons Tribe-Infecting Virus to the field.
Player A activates the effecft of Tribe-Infecting Virus (notice that Player B has not yet had a chance to respond).
Player B chains with Trap Hole.

The other possible situation would be:

Player A summons Tribe-Infecting Virus to the field. He chooses not to immediately activate its effect.
Player B responds with Trap Hole.
It is now too late for Player A to use the effect of Tribe-Infecting Virus

At least this is how I see priority currently.

 

[helpoemer316]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

Here's something new to talk about, I found this on UDE's FAQ and essentially on netrep's FAQ since we mirror UDE.

If your opponent Summons "Breaker the Magical Warrior" and activates "Breaker the Magical Warrior"'s effect to place a Spell Counter on him, and you chain "Enemy Controller" to the effect and take control of "Breaker the Magical Warrior", resolve "Enemy Controller" first and "Breaker the Magical Warrior"'s effect of placing a Spell Counter second, and the player who used "Enemy Controller" can use "Breaker the Magical Warrior"'s effect to destroy a Spell or Trap Card.

That's from under Enemy Controller in both FAQ's.

Anyone mind explaining how one can remove a counter on a monster that was summoned by the opponent... during their turn?  Last I checked.... Breaker wasn't a multi-trigger monster(meaning only spell speed 1).

Anyone want to explain THIS exception to the rules?

Added in:

I think this situation should be rewritten as follows:

Player A summons Tribe-Infecting Virus to the field.
Player A activates the effecft of Tribe-Infecting Virus (notice that Player B has not yet had a chance to respond).
Player B chains with Trap Hole.

The other possible situation would be:

Player A summons Tribe-Infecting Virus to the field. He chooses not to immediately activate its effect.
Player B responds with Trap Hole.
It is now too late for Player A to use the effect of Tribe-Infecting Virus

At least this is how I see priority currently.

If Trap Hole is activated in response to Tribe hitting the field, that means that it has just hit the field and there has been no time to declare the thought of activating Tribe's effect. Remember, Trap Hole must be activated upon the summoning, you can't activate it later.

How I explained it is correct, Trap Hole would most assurably always be activated first in response to the summon, then the chain occurs as the controller of Tribe wishes to use priority.

 

[anthonyj]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

I have a very important question about this topic. As it has been explained previously a player has priority when they summon, if the opponent activates a trap such as Torrential or Trap Hole when the turn player summons a monster without allowing them to declare that they are using the effect then the opponent played out of turn and has to turn the trap back down. This is not necessarily a "chain". It is playing out of turn. So the first example:
Player A summons Tribe-Infecting Virus to the field.
Player B responds with Trap Hole.
Player A choose to use turn priority to activate Tribe's effect.
Player B's Trap Hole is then added on the chain as link 2.
Is in itself incorrect, this is making a base assumption that Player B is playing out of turn. We really shouldn't give examples on a game mechanic with the suggestion that this would be proper game play. Correctly written it would need to be:
Player A summons Tribe-Infecting Virus to the field.
Player A has the option to activate Tribe-Infecting Virus's effect.
If the effect is activated then Player B would be allowed to chain an appropriate response to the summon such as Trap Hole.
If the effect is not activated then Player B would be allowed to start a new chain by activating a response to the summon such as Trap Hole. (If Player B responds with Trap Hole after Player A chose not to activate the effect the Player A does not have the right to change his mind and activate Tribe as that would be attempting to chain a Spell Speed 1 effect to a Speed 2 effect in the chain.)

 

[helpoemer316]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

Should be and IS are two different answers, I whole heartedly agree with you, but that's just not how the cards are ever played. They're always played the way I have set them up, that's something some people need to understand while reading my essays.

I write them as they're played, people tend to always jump ahead and respond to the summon before an effect can be activated. In all technicality, even though I said it's arguable either way above. You can say that summoning is an action that passes priority to an opponent, if that's the case, then Trap Hole, etc. is being activated at a correct time. After the trap is activated, the priority is passed back and then you have the exception to the rule to allow the turn player priority of activating a spell speed 1 effect, such as Tribe's.

With all this in mind, and you can't put a speed 1 effect anywhere but at the beginning of the chain, the chain would be like I described it above.

There is no clear cut way to explain it and the end result is known by everyone, which is the funny thing about it. The rules of priority with summons is more of exceptions to pre-existing rules then anything else actually in the gameplay mechanics of passing priority.

 

[anthonyj]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

I understand completely that that is how the game is currently played. That comes to the very crux of "Priority", we are going to have to be much more exact in proper execution of steps and allowing each player to do what they are doing before "jumping the gun". If I draw a card and then say "Oh, I activate MST in your end phase to destroy the card you set" I'm going to probably be told I can't do that after I have obviously started my draw phase by drawing a card. I can set the drawn card back on the top of the deck and activate my set MST and then start my draw phase by drawing that card, but that is playing the game with improper knowledge of an event that may or may not happen (ie. knowing what that draw was tells me I'm okay to use the MST where I may have not been willing to do so and draw into a different card).

The same needs to be true of "Priority". Once you know what your opponent is planning to do it is unfair to at that point decide whether to activate your "Priority". Judges currently give warnings and then escalate if a player continuously makes illegal plays. Waiting for knowledge of an opponents response and then deciding to Push an effect into a chain is an illegal play. We need to clarify this before putting down "The Rules of Priority".

 

[solitarywolf17]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

First let me say that I agree with you on the whole part about being able to use another spell speed 1 effect, such as Giant Orc + Catapult Turtle VS. Torrential Tribute.

Though, this has also brought another question to mind. I'll try to explain this as best as I can:

1) I summon a monster to the field

2)Since it is logical to assume, under your thought, that Summoning does not pass priority, Can I then play Pot of Greed? (which passes priority)

3) Assuming such, I believe that it would still be possible for my opponent to activate a card such as Torrential Tribute.
This is due in part because the last thing to have Fully "resolved"(Though I know a summoning cannot resolve since it has no speed) {it was merely the last thing to have fully happened without being contested.) Was the succesful summon of a monster. Thus the activation requirements had been fulfilled.

Am I correct in assuming this or am I totally off the margin?
I guess it looks kind of like this:

Player A: Summons Giant Orc {Last Action to occur FULLY, "Summoning"
Player A: Still Has Priority {However the last action to FULLY occur, "Summoning")
Player A: Then "Activates" Pot of Greed" {Passes Priority} (Last Action: "Summoning")
Player B: Responds with Torrential Tribute (Last FULLY occured action, "Summoning)
Player A: Receives Priority Back from Player B, and does not Respond.

Chain:
Link 1: Pot of Greed
Link 2: Torrential Tribute

Resolution:
Link 2: Torrential Tribute Resolves (Destroys all Monsters on the Field)
Link 1: Pot of Greed Resolves (Allowing Player A to Draw 2 cards)

Last Action to occur FULLY: "Drawing of 2 Cards by Player A"

In this scenario is it safe to assume that cards of the nature of having Activation requirements, will not have missed their timing as long as the last action to have fully occurred was the requirement to activate?

If this is the case then it is neccessary to believe that their is a certain "State" to the field, and that this "State" can only change when:

1) An action occurs that changes it, (ie Summoning)
2) A card "RESOLVES" its effect , not "Activates"

In essence the "state" cannot change unless an action is performed fully, or a card resolves its effect fully.

Thought?

 

[anthonyj]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

In this scenario is it safe to assume that cards of the nature of having Activation requirements, will not have missed their timing as long as the last action to have fully occurred was the requirement to activate?

If this is the case then it is neccessary to believe that their is a certain "State" to the field, and that this "State" can only change when:

1) An action occurs that changes it, (ie Summoning)
2) A card "RESOLVES" its effect , not "Activates"

In essence the "state" cannot change unless an action is performed fully, or a card resolves its effect fully.

Yet this sets up the question, "Can I now activate Magic Drain on your Pot of Greed, then Chain with Horn of Heaven to negate the summon of Giant Orc?"

 

[solitarywolf17]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

Hmm.. so what you are saying is this: (now mind you this is considering that the first "action" performed was the start of the Main Phase 1 by Player A)
P.S.- Horn of Heaven does have an activation requirement, that a monster must be summoned(including special summoned) in order to be activated. Therefore this is still similar to the Torrential Tribute one I presented, only that this time the last action to occur is returned to the action performed prior to the summoning.

Player A (Me): Summons Giant Orc (Still Retains Priority) {Last Action Occured Fully, "Summoning"}
Player A: Activates Pot of Greed {Passes Priority} {Last Action Occured Fully, "Summoning"}
Player B: Chains Magic Drain {Passes Priority} {Last Action Occured Fully, "Summoning"}
Player A: Does Not Respond
Player B: Chains Horn of Heaven {Passes Priority} (Leagal){last FULLY performed action,"summoning"}
Player A: Does Not Respond

Last Fully Performed Action: "Summoning"

Chain:
Link 1: Pot of Greed
Link 2: Magic Drain
Link 3: Horn of Heaven

Resolution:
Link 3: Horn of Heaven resolves (Negating the summon) {Last action to occur,(Resolution of HoH, State changes- "Start of Main Phase 1")}
Link 2: Magic Drain resolves (Player A discards a spell) {Last Action to occur,(Resolution of Magic Drain- "Discarding of Spell")}
Link 1: Pot of Greed resolves (Player A draws 2 cards) {Last action to occur, (Resolution of PoG- "Drawing of cards")}

Last Action to occur: "Resolution of Pot of Greed (Drawing 2 Cards)"

You see how the only real change throughout the entire chain, aside from the cards themselves, has been the changing of the "State".
Also this next example goes back to the ruling on Magic Cylinder vs. Gravity Bind:
Lets Say you do this instead:
Last action occured Fully, "Entering of Main Phase 1"

Player A: Summons Giant Orc (retains Priority) {Last Action to occur Fully,"Summoning"}
Player A: Activates Pot of Greed (Passes Priority) {Last Action to occur Fully,"Summoning"}
Player B: Activates Imperial Order (Passes Priority) {Last Action to occur Fully,"Summoning"}
Player A: Activates Torrential Tribute (Passes Priority) {Last action to occur fully, "Summoning"}
Player B: Activate Horn of Heaven (Passes Priority) {Last action to occur fully, "Summoning"}
Player A: Does Not Respond (Passes)
Player B: Does Not Respond

Last action to occur Fully, "Summoning"

Chain:
Link 1: Pot of Greed
Link 2: Imperial Order
Link 3: Torrential Tribute
Link 4: Horn of Heaven

Resolution:
Link 4: Horn of Heaven Resolves (Changes the "State") Last action to occur fully,(Resolution of HoH, State change to "Start of Main Phase 1")
Link 3: Torrential Tribute Resolves ***(Destroys all mons on the field) LAtOF,(Resolution of TT "Destruction of monsters")
Link 2: Imperial Order Resolves (Negates effects of all spells on the field) LAtOF, (Resolution of IO "Negation of spells on the Field"
Link 1: Pot of Greed resolves (Tries but cannot due to IO)

Last Action to Occur Fully,(Resolution of IO, "Negation of all Spells on the Field")

****cards like Torrential Tribute, and Magical Cylinders, need only to have their activation requirements met in order to activate not resolve. So Even though Horn of Heaven Negated the Summon, it cannot stop Torrential Tribute from resolving its effect since the activation reuirements had been met prior to Torrential being activated.
(Same goes with the Magic Cylinder vs. Gravity Bind, if you want to know what it is it is on the card registery under Magic Cylinders.)

The short Answer to your question would be " Yes."

To AnthonyJ-------- However, if you are trying to imply that You could now, activate Magic Drain in Response to the Last Action Occured Fully: "Resolution of Pot of Greed (Drawing of 2 cards)"
Then I have to question you, how can you activate Magic Drain since PoG Has already resolved and change d the "State".
That same thinking goes with Horn of Heaven chained to Magic Drain, since in the thought above the Last Action Occured Fully- was the "Resolution of Pot of Greed (Drawing of 2 cards)", how could you then activate HoH since the Last action would have needed to be a summoning?
Though if this is not what you were trying to get across then Ignore this last bit.

 

[novastar]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

In this scenario is it safe to assume that cards of the nature of having Activation requirements, will not have missed their timing as long as the last action to have fully occurred was the requirement to activate?

If this is the case then it is neccessary to believe that their is a certain "State" to the field, and that this "State" can only change when:

1) An action occurs that changes it, (ie Summoning)
2) A card "RESOLVES" its effect , not "Activates"

In essence the "state" cannot change unless an action is performed fully, or a card resolves its effect fully.

Yet this sets up the question, "Can I now activate Magic Drain on your Pot of Greed, then Chain with Horn of Heaven to negate the summon of Giant Orc?"

You cannot, because just like [Negate Attack] must be the first card activated in response to an attack, [Horn of Heaven] must be the first card activated in response to a summoning, or else the timing is incorrect.

The short answer is "No".

Additionally, [Pot of Greed] cannot be activated in response to a summon.

Lets understand that the confusion stems from our lack of comprehensive understanding here in North America. This is not a "changed" mechanic, but one that has existed, but was not properly explained to us.

[quote author=helpoemer316]So it only naturally makes sense that a summon is not an action that would require the passing of priority (unlike chains and such where you must after activating a card in a chain).  That would mean the activation of a trap in response to a summon is always illegal, and it becomes legal only if the turn player chooses to activate a cards effect or to not activate anything at all (since the trap activated still met it's conditions, bah, that even adds more to the confusion).[/quote]
Yes, a summoning doesn't automatically pass priority. But it is all about timing, you can choose 3 options as the Turn Player, Pass, activate a Spell Speed 1 effect of the monster summoned (if there is one), or activate a Spell Speed 2 effect. It must be one of those 3, so if you cannot perform either of the 2, you are forced to pass.

 

[Raigekick]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

But it the turn player gets priority after summoning, how can the opponent activate Horn of Heaven if the turn player uses his prioriry. Can the opponent ever use the HofH at all?

 

[solitarywolf17]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

Actually Nova Star, no one said anything about activating PoG in Response to a summon. The Thought was that if summoning a mon to the field does not pass priority to the opposing player, then isn't legal for the turn player to activate a card, or a monster effect, before the opponent has a chance to respond with anything.

 

[novastar]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

But it the turn player gets priority after summoning, how can the opponent activate Horn of Heaven if the turn player uses his prioriry. Can the opponent ever use the HofH at all?

there is no real solid logic behind this (that i can explain).

Essentially cards like [Horn of Heaven] are give a special timing, that is prior to the successful summon of the monster. Basically, there is a summon declaration step, that the opponent can play [Horn of Heaven]. Ater that, you cannot activate it. This is a step before Cost Effect Priority can be used.

 

[helpoemer316]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

You couldn't chain both Magic Drain and Horn of Heaven, it'd have to be one or the other.  What you're creating in your previous example is two different chains at one time, this isn't possible.

What will eventually happen is you'll have to choose to activate either the Magic Drain or the Horn of Heaven, you can't do both.  Remember, counter traps (spell speed 3 traps) have to be chained directly to what they are countering.  So if you were to activate Magic Drain, you couldn't then chain Horn of Heaven, if you were to activate Horn of Heaven, then you couldn't chain Magic Drain, you get my point?

 

[novastar]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

Actually Nova Star, no one said anything about activating PoG in Response to a summon. The Thought was that if summoning a mon to the field does not pass priority to the opposing player, then isn't legal for the turn player to activate a card, or a monster effect, before the opponent has a chance to respond with anything.
Please read everything before responding.

I read it, and what i'm saying, is that there are restrictions on what you can and cannot activate.

So essentially I'm saying that what you proposed is infact illegal.

 

[densetsu_x]

Re: Priority v. 1.1 (All Read before posting priority quest.)

When a monster is summoned intially, there's a very brief "limbo" state where essentially, it's declared but not resolved yet. "Horn of Heaven" or "Solemn Judgment" can be activated at this point (only) to negate the summon. Because the monster is not considered to have hit the field yet, it is why these traps can be activated even if it is "Jinzo" that is being summoned.

If either of those cards are not activated at that immediate moment, then the monster is considered properly summoned and the window has been closed. Now other cards in response to a properly summoned monster can be activated by either player (priority issues aside).

- Andrew