'08 Presidential Election Tracking Page Here on CoG

Digital Jedi

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For anyone interested, I had set this up for myself, but I figured you might want like it to. I set up a tracking page here on the forums that follows the election coverage live as it happens tomorrow. It includes a live view of the Electoral Map, live video of MSNBC's coverage and the CNN political ticker. As of this posting, the video is showing live footage of Michelle Obama speaking at a campaign rally in Las Vegas.

http://www.cogonline.net/index.php?page=presidential_election
 
Democrats are still worried, though, as McCain does have a path to 270. Granted, it's an uphill battle, but the McCain campaign is convinced that they're internal polling suggest the races are closer then the national polls. My instinct says this is Obama's race to loose, as he always seems to do and be just a little bit better then his press. And his press is great right now. He's on Landslide Watch at MSNBC. But another part of me keeps thinking about the little things that can damage his run. Like voter suppression efforts that target minorities, young people putting voting off until it's too late and just the general hard time that longs lines have put on the electorate as whole.

Then again, that's being colored by our history. Under normal circumstances, these factors could be devastating to the democratic candidate. But then again, these are hardly normal circumstances, and this is hardly a normal democratic candidate.
 
Obama had better win, at any rate. I think this website speaks for itself. The whole world wants him to win, but geniuses (that's an acceptable plural in modern English, I'll have you know) outside the USA aren't allowed to vote whereas the, shall we say, less favourable American residents can.

And doesn't anyone else see the problem with a system of government where only 2 political parties are allowed (or at least, exist)? Not to mention I've seen a lot of religion flying around American politics while, I believe, the Constitution or the Bill o' Rights or whatever it is specifically says: "Thou shalt not mix religion with anything worthwhile (education, politics, law, etc.)."

This could turn into a rant, though, so I'll cut it there. Suffice it to say, I'm not the biggest fan of the American political system (nor most of their systems, actually, from what little I know of them - I do like that prison you Yanks have down south that forces the inmates to wear pink and treats them badly, because that apparently does discourage them from breaking the law again afterwards).

No, stop, no rant. Bad pharaoh.
 
Oh, we've got plenty of political parties in the US. We just have two dominant ones. In fact, there's two third party candidates running right now who are getting small percentages of the vote some states, and because they tend to draw Republican voters, they are having an effect on McCain's overall total. But yeah, we have more parties then we need right now in the US. We just have a dominant two, much like the UK does.

As far as religion goes, I'm pretty sure we don't have anything like that in any major document. If anything, our Constitution still says "under God" as does our currency. It's actually more fundamentalist groups that want to keep the two separate. Politics itself is still greatly influence by religion, which is very likely why Romney (a Mormon) didn't win the Republican Primary. In fact, I can only think of one US politician of the top of my head that was sworn in on something other then a Bible. The first Muslim elected to the US Congress was Keith Ellison, who was sworn in on Thomas Jefferson's copy of the Quran.

Oh, about those prisons. Yeah...
 
Gotta love that roostermeat sandwich.

And yes there are other parties but they are suppressed and few people know they exist. The pirate party should be running the country.
 
Stop making me Google everything you say. <shakes fist>

I wouldn't say they're repressed. They're more like unpopular clubs. Most people either associate themselves with one ideology or the other. The rest will most likely call themselves Independent. Think of it like Marvel and DC. Most everything else is considered Independent, but the Big 2 carry the tenure and money to remain dominant.
 
Labour, Conservatives, Liberal Democrats. That's three main UK parties, although I will concede that the Lib Dems never get many votes. And there are others, like the Green, the BNP (British National Party) and a few others that most people know of. And the Official Monster Raving Loony Party, of course.

It's a shame that money is the main thing that's needed in politics. This practically defines political candidates as unsuitable for the job, since they have to put in a lot of effort to get to their positions, and as the saying goes: "Those who most want power are those least suited to have it" (or some variant thereof). It should be the case that the best people for the job get the job, and ideally be people who don't care about gaining personal power but about doing what's best.

Actually, I remember hearing somewhere that it was decided the best form of political power was a benevolent dictatorship, and upon thinking about it I fully agree.


As far as religion goes, I'm pretty sure we don't have anything like that in any major document. If anything, our Constitution still says "under God" as does our currency. It's actually more fundamentalist groups that want to keep the two separate. Politics itself is still greatly influence by religion, which is very likely why Romney (a Mormon) didn't win the Republican Primary. In fact, I can only think of one US politician of the top of my head that was sworn in on something other then a Bible. The first Muslim elected to the US Congress was Keith Ellison, who was sworn in on Thomas Jefferson's copy of the Quran.
Well, it should be separated. Religion is outdated (as is the US Constitution or the Bill o' Rights or whatever it is - that third amendment looks rather unnecessary, for example), and shouldn't have a primary place in the modern world.
 
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Labour, Conservatives, Liberal Democrats. That's three main UK parties, although I will concede that the Lib Dems never get many votes. And there are others, like the Green, the BNP (British National Party) and a few others that most people know of. And the Official Monster Raving Loony Party, of course.
We also have a Green Party, though I'm not sure what the ideology is. I recently saw a news report on the nominee for the B.E.E.R (Bear + Deer = Deer) party: an old hippie who wears an Uncle Sam costume and campaigns from his renovated Model T. He said he would have went unchallenged in the Primaries and would have gotten a unanimous vote from the party, had a few of them not been too drunk to raise their hand.

It's a shame that money is the main thing that's needed in politics. This practically defines political candidates as unsuitable for the job, since they have to put in a lot of effort to get to their positions, and as the saying goes: "Those who most want power are those least suited to have it" (or some variant thereof). It should be the case that the best people for the job get the job, and ideally be people who don't care about gaining personal power but about doing what's best.
True. But one could argue that the ability to raise money and organize and inspire people around you is evidence of your leadership skills. I think if you need money to advertise you soap, coffee maker, computer or trading cards, then it should be even more important to raise money for your campaign. And the more popular you become, well, then money would be an important mechanic in the process.

Actually, I remember hearing somewhere that it was decided the best form of political power was a benevolent dictatorship, and upon thinking about it I fully agree.
If power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, then a "benevolent dictatorship", I would think, would be something of an oxymoron. I for one have always felt that imperfect humans should never be given full unchecked power of a nation. Even a benevolent, well-meaning leader can make gruesome mistakes if his decision making can't be counter balanced in any way. But, then again, I'm also of the opinion that humans are incapable of properly governing themselves anyway, due to their imperfect nature. But a series of checks and balances is most likely the lesser of such "evils".


Well, it should be separated. Religion is outdated (as is the US Constitution or the Bill o' Rights or whatever it is - that third amendment looks rather unnecessary, for example), and shouldn't have a primary place in the modern world.
But those that feel that way are in a minority, and no US candidate would get very far if he didn't share, in some manner, the values of the majority of his constituency. Evangelicals, for example, are a major demographic in some states, and Florida hinges largely on Obama garnering a large part of the Jewish vote. Politics is still very ideological because the nation at large is very religious (whether they're actively religious or not, they still identify with certain values). It's really only the internet where you find the majority of the agnostic/atheistic crowd. The largest part of the country without a doubt would not vote for, say, a person from the Godless Americans, a political group trying to get some of the affirmation "under God" type things removed from the Constitution. They'll vote for someone they identify with. Which is why it's considered quite a leap forward that Obama is doing well with working class white voters, a demographic he was supposed to have trouble with.

Then again, the Constitution is something that is borderline scripture in our country. Trying to get anything removed or appended to it is like trying to get Lucas to rewrite Star Wars.

Which bit did ya google?
The Harold and Kumar reference.
 
We also have a Green Party, though I'm not sure what the ideology is. I recently saw a news report on the nominee for the B.E.E.R (Bear + Deer = Deer) party: an old hippie who wears an Uncle Sam costume and campaigns from his renovated Model T. He said he would have went unchallenged in the Primaries and would have gotten a unanimous vote from the party, had a few of them not been too drunk to raise their hand.
There's lots of Green Parties around. In the UK, there's one for each of its countries.


True. But one could argue that the ability to raise money and organize and inspire people around you is evidence of your leadership skills. I think if you need money to advertise you soap, coffee maker, computer or trading cards, then it should be even more important to raise money for your campaign. And the more popular you become, well, then money would be an important mechanic in the process.
I don't think leadership is necessarily an important skill. All you have to do is decide what needs to be done and write it down. It shouldn't matter how charismatic you are, so long as you get across your decisions.

And money is overrated. I'm all for abolishing it (or at least not allowing one person to have more than a certain amount - the excess is automatically taken off them and given to science or charities. But that's just my idea.


If power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, then a "benevolent dictatorship", I would think, would be something of an oxymoron. I for one have always felt that imperfect humans should never be given full unchecked power of a nation. Even a benevolent, well-meaning leader can make gruesome mistakes if his decision making can't be counter balanced in any way. But, then again, I'm also of the opinion that humans are incapable of properly governing themselves anyway, due to their imperfect nature. But a series of checks and balances is most likely the lesser of such "evils".
It combines being able to cause real changes regardless of the minority that would complain about it, with the kind of people that actually want those changes to be for the benefit of mankind and not just for themselves (they don't even care about the publicity).

Of course, it'd be a bit hazardous to have just one person calling all the shots, because they won't be experts on everything and won't specifically know what's best in every situation. Perhaps have a dictator per department (money, education, war, etc.), who have to run their ideas by the others just to make sure they make some kind of sense. And there's be a Fuhrer to keep all of them in line.

It's therefore not so much about one person having complete power, as it is about being able to dismiss small complaints from minorities. The people in charge wouldn't be duty-bound to please as many people as possible - they would be responsible for making everything better. For example, banning all civilians from carrying guns would cause an uproar in America, but it would decrease the number of shootings and related deaths (which would be a good thing). Limiting the rights of prisoners would be another example, because it would lead to fewer repeat offenders because they know how badly they're treated.


But those that feel that way are in a minority, and no US candidate would get very far if he didn't share, in some manner, the values of the majority of his constituency. Evangelicals, for example, are a major demographic in some states, and Florida hinges largely on Obama garnering a large part of the Jewish vote. Politics is still very ideological because the nation at large is very religious (whether they're actively religious or not, they still identify with certain values). It's really only the internet where you find the majority of the agnostic/atheistic crowd. The largest part of the country without a doubt would not vote for, say, a person from the Godless Americans, a political group trying to get some of the affirmation "under God" type things removed from the Constitution. They'll vote for someone they identify with. Which is why it's considered quite a leap forward that Obama is doing well with working class white voters, a demographic he was supposed to have trouble with.
It's still wrong, though. Candidates should be judged on their policies, not on their religion or skin colour or their running mate's bra size. It should be about competence, not about which invisible person they talk to every night.


Then again, the Constitution is something that is borderline scripture in our country. Trying to get anything removed or appended to it is like trying to get Lucas to rewrite Star Wars.
If it's the prequel trilogy, then it should be rewritten, no complaints.

Seriously, c'mon, at least reword the thing. Make it clear what it's on about. I'll admit to not having read the whole thing, but the thing that struck me the most about the parts I have read is that they can easily be interpreted in a number of ways, and often is.
 
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