"Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

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densetsu_x

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"Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

Since there are 2 threads debating how "Divine Wrath" works (though on different tangents, 1 in general, and 1 in regards to how "Sinister Serpent"'s effect operates), I just wanted to post a heads up to all the "Divine Wrath" questions that I took and posted asked on the mailing list.

I got a response back from Curtis that there is no word on the "Divine Wrath" rulings (including vs. "Sinister Serpent") currently.

My guess is that this all got forwarded to Konami to have them figure it out.

So in the meantime, that just leaves us with our own conjecture (aka "theory") on how to properly rule on this card. And let's face it... we will all be seeing this card heavily played.

I have my ideas on how I would rule some of the sticky subjects... and I know other people's opinion will vary (just look at the threads). The only thing is if you do rule 1 way, just stay consistant with that until we do have a definative answer.

- Andrew

P.S. For those wondering, I view "Divine Wrath" only to negate the effect at that one time of activation. Reason behind this, if you have "XYZ-Dragon Cannon" equipped with "Heavy Mech Support Platform" and you discard a card to destroy a card on the field and your opponent chains "Divine Wrath", the effect is negated and in this instance "Heavy Mech Support Platform" is destroyed in place of "XYZ-Dragon Cannon". Now, there's nothing stopping the player from activating "XYZ"'s effect again.

In the case of "Marie the Fallen One", that would be a trigger effect so "Divine Wrath" would negate her effect for this turn only... come next turn you would gain 200 life points again.

For "Sinister Serpent", well, the way they write one ruling makes it look like it's a Cost Effect while the way they write another ruling, it's a Trigger Effect. After thinking about it... I'm going to go with "Optional Trigger Effect" so "Divine Wrath" would negate grabbing "Sinister Serpent" for this 1 turn only. You can get him back next turn.

vs. "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning" - you can use it again both of his effects. This is different from "Element Dragon" because "Element Dragon"'s effect of attacking twice is given within a continous effect (an effect as a result of an effect... ugly I know), while BLS's effects are a Cost and a Trigger. Yeah I know this last point will likely cause much disagreement, but again, this is just how I see it.

[Edited out the incorrect info]

Oh I so love this card...
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

How can you activate a 2nd Negate Attack? I thought the ruling had been clarified that you could activate multiple chains but not one that needed the declaration of attack (ie. Mirror Force, Seven Tools, Gravity Bind would work, but Mirror Force, Seven Tools, Sakuretsu would not).

Thus Divine Wrath could not be activated again in another chain as its time for proper activation is no longer there.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

densetsu_x said:
I activate TIV's effect
My opponent chains "Divine Wrath"
I chain "Seven Tools of the Bandit"
My opponent chains another "Divine Wrath"

Resolution: "Divine Wrath" negates TIV and destroys it, and I'm out the 1000 LP for activating "Seven Tools" to negate the 1st "Divine Wrath".

The logic behind this? Because this ruling was deemed valid:
I declare an attack, opponent activates "Negate Attack", I chain "Seven Tools", he chains another "Negate Attack"... result being the attack is negated and I'm out of the battle step.
Click to expand...

I don't see how the divine wrath example is different from:
I activate Raigeki
my opponent chains magic jammer
I activate 7 tools
my opponent chains another magic jammer

I thought that a counter trap that negates a card effect had to negate the immediately previous link in the chain.  I don't think this magic jammer example is legal, and I don't see why Divine Wrath would be different.  I see the negate attack example as having a key difference, the fact that an attack declaration doesn't have a spell speed and thus you are not chaining to it.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

Good point. When spelled out that way, it seems obvious. Guess I got sucked into the "Negate Attack" working... but this is what I get for trying to think too much. Time to correct the original post.

- A
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

Here's how I rule Divine Wrath (and this is based on the card type descriptions):

- Flip Effects: can be negated (as they are activated)
- Continuous Effects: can't be negated (as they aren't activated per se)
- Cost Effects: can be negated (as they are activated)
- Trigger Effects: can be negated (as they are activated)
- Multi-Trigger Effects: can be negated (as they are activated)
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

densetsu_x said:
vs. "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning" - you can use it again both of his effects.  This is different from "Element Dragon" because "Element Dragon"'s effect of attacking twice is given within a continous effect (an effect as a result of an effect... ugly I know), while BLS's effects are a Cost and a Trigger.  Yeah I know this last point will likely cause much disagreement, but again, this is just how I see it.

[Edited out the incorrect info]

Oh I so love this card...
Click to expand...

Okay... I can see where Black Luster Soldier's second effect is a Trigger, but what makes his first effect a Cost? Is it because "if" he uses it to remove a monster from the field, he then cannot attack for that Battle Phase?
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

As been stated by Curtis on the mailing list, a "Cost" effect is a bit of a misnomer... it does not need a "cost" to activate the effect. "Cost Effects" are just manually activated effects that are not dependant upon anything to happen in order to use it and can only be activated during your turn.

- Andrew
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

densetsu_x said:
As been stated by Curtis on the mailing list, a "Cost" effect is a bit of a misnomer... it does not need a "cost" to activate the effect.  "Cost Effects" are just manually activated effects that are not dependant upon anything to happen in order to use it and can only be activated during your turn.

- Andrew
Click to expand...

Well, that's not entirely true with Black Luster's first effect.

If there are no monsters on the field other than Black Luster Soldier, he can ONLY remove himself if the controller so chooses, but of course, most logic would say the controller would not do so.  So, the condidtion is that there must be at least one monster on the field in order to activate his first effect on, even if it is himself.

Based upon that, BLack Luster's first effect is more like a "Trigger" than a "Cost".  It would be triggered each time the Main Phase of the controlling Players turn starts dependant upon whether or not the effect was used that turn..
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

No it's not a "Trigger Effect" in the least. "Lava Golem" is a trigger effect. "Marie the Fallen One" is a trigger effect. "Solar Flare Dragon" is a trigger effect. All of those have effects that happen as a result of something else happening, even if it's just being in a certain place at a certain time. "Black Luster Soldier - EotB" is a cost effect the same way "Chaos Sorcerer", "Chaos Emperor Dragon - EotE", "Tribe-Infecting Virus", "Cannon Soldier", etc. are all Cost Effects. You the player decide when to activate it if you want. Just because it doesn't cost you life points or a monster to be discaded or tributed doesn't change the category it falls on.

Like it was mentioned, it's a poor way to name it. (Then again "Multi-Trigger" is a poor name for those effects since some are trigger effects that can be activated during your opponent's turn, while other are cost effects that can be activated during your opponent's turn). But that is the category it belongs to.

His second effect is a trigger effect. When it destroys a monster in battle, it can attack again. Condition, resolution. The part about not attacking if you activate the first effect is a condition to the resolution... a state that is set. Likewise if you attack, you can't use the first ability (again, another state that is set).

- Andrew
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

densetsu_x said:
For "Sinister Serpent", well, the way they write one ruling makes it look like it's a Cost Effect while the way they write another ruling, it's a Trigger Effect.  After thinking about it... I'm going to go with "Optional Trigger Effect" so "Divine Wrath" would negate grabbing "Sinister Serpent" for this 1 turn only.  You can get him back next turn
Click to expand...

You get sinister serpent back in the standby phase. Say I activate Divine wrath.  Sinister stays in the graveyard. Now it is still the standby phase. What is stopping me from using Sinister's effect again. As I see it is an optional effect. There is no ruling that states you can only use the effect once a turn. Divine Wrath only negates the effect at that time. It doesn't stop it for the entire turn/game
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

about Sinister Serpent, aint it graveyard effect? The End of Anubis sez, "hahah foolish vampire lord, i can negate effects that designate and/or activate in the graveyard". like strike ninja effect when it returns to the field at the end phase of the turn, its not trigger effect even tho it is a multi trigger effect monster, the feffect of it returning to the field is just an "effect" i kno the effect of sinister serpent is chainable and can be responded to, but, i dont think u can respond or chain to the effect of sinister serpent with divine wrath since it cant be destroyed agen while its in the graveyard.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

its a very good card ill admit, but i still say skill drain is better, since it is continous and can negate even jinzo effect if it on the field first. divine wrath however cannot. go skill drain :D
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

Yeah but we already had a ton of cards that could kill Jinzo. Divine Wrath is actually one of the first that can truly hose a Chaos Control deck. Man what I would have given to be able to kill CED with just a single discard instead of having to give up half my life points (Solemn Judgement) or one of the precious few monsters on the field (Horn of Heaven) to prevent having to go to top decking mode.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

StRiKe_NiNjA said:
about Sinister Serpent, aint it graveyard effect? The End of Anubis sez, "hahah foolish vampire lord, i can negate effects that designate and/or activate in the graveyard". like strike ninja effect when it returns to the field at the end phase of the turn, its not trigger effect even tho it is a multi trigger effect monster, the feffect of it returning to the field is just an "effect" i kno the effect of sinister serpent is chainable and can be responded to, but, i dont think u can respond or chain to the effect of sinister serpent with divine wrath since it cant be destroyed agen while its in the graveyard.
Click to expand...

Since the "Sinister Serpent" is already in the graveyard, it cannot be destroyed, but the activation and effect of its effect will still be negated by "Divine Wrath".

This is similar to how "Divine Wrath" can be used against the effect of "Kuriboh".

EDIT: Actually, I'm not really sure about one thing I said....if you activate "Divine Wrath" on the "Sinister Serpent" would the "Sinister Serpent" be re-destroyed by "Divine Wrath" or will it just not be destroyed because it is already in the grave. I think the answer is the latter, but I think some clarification is needed.

EDIT2: But since "Divine Wrath" actually destroys the monster, I prefer it more that "Skill Drain".
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

No Divine Wrath would not destroy Sinister Serpent in the graveyard, it would simply negate the effect. You do not destroy cards in the graveyard or removed from play.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

Well seeing that its still the standby phase after Divine Wrath resolves sinister serpent can just activate its effect again. But yes you can activated Divine wrath if you need to discard something.. it is technically doing something.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

no you wouldnt be able to activate its effect during the same turn. it is not a continous effect.

devine wrath says Negate the activation and the effect.

so for 1 whole turn ss wont be comming back till next stanby.
 
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