Does Reflect Bounder Target Itself?

A

ancient_duelist

Gold Member
Say you have a Reflect Bounder equipped with Shooting Star Bow - Ceal and also with Heart of Clear Water. Would Heart of Clear Water prevent Reflect Bounder from destroying itself after it is attacked?
 
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Dillie-O said:
Reflect Bounder's effect does not target, according to RONIN. So in that regard it would be not be immune to its destruction effect.
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That's what I would think also, but I have been told this ruling refers to Reflect Bounder's effect of dealing damage based on the ATK of the attacking monster and that this does not target the attacking monster. It seems to me that the effect of destroying itself is a state being imposed and not a targeting effect. So, I agree that Heart of Clear Water will not protect it, I'm just having a problem explaining why.
 
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Raijinili said:
The only way something can target itself is if it can also target something else for the same thing.

So Penguin Soldier can target itself, but it can also target a different monster.

Reflect Bounder can't choose a different monster to destroy, so it's not targeting.
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Thanks, that helps explain the "why" it is not protected by Heart of Clear Water. I did not think it would work, but I couldn't explain why.
 
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ancient_duelist said:
That's what I would think also, but I have been told this ruling refers to Reflect Bounder's effect of dealing damage based on the ATK of the attacking monster and that this does not target the attacking monster. It seems to me that the effect of destroying itself is a state being imposed and not a targeting effect. So, I agree that Heart of Clear Water will not protect it, I'm just having a problem explaining why.
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That's exactly what the ruling was referring to. Triggered (automatic) effects that can only have one target, as a rule, do not target.

Manual effects that can only have one target (such as "The attacking monster"), as a rule, DO target.
 
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In the end, when it comes to targeting, it all comes down to whether the controller of the effect can choose the target(s) or not.

Can you choose and destroy Reflect Bounder?

Can you choose which monster's ATK is inflicted as damage?

You answer those questions and you have your answer.
 
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Raijinili said:
That's exactly what the ruling was referring to. Triggered (automatic) effects that can only have one target, as a rule, do not target.

Manual effects that can only have one target (such as "The attacking monster"), as a rule, DO target.
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Thanks, that's a very good explanation.
 
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novastar said:
In the end, when it comes to targeting, it all comes down to whether the controller of the effect can choose the target(s) or not.

Can you choose and destroy Reflect Bounder?

Can you choose which monster's ATK is inflicted as damage?

You answer those questions and you have your answer.
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Thanks. That is also a very good explanation.
 
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