[judge-yu] Raging Flame Sprite Text vs Jinzo #7

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UDEbot

More Machine Than Man
During this weeks tournament a head scratcher came up due to an old local ruling
I recieved from 2004.

If Raging Flame Sprite attacks your opponents life points directly (by bypassing your opponents monsters like Jinzo #7) does it's attack increase by 1000? Or do you have to inflict battle damage via normal battle for the effect to work?

The ruling in the FAQ for Raging Flame Sprite seems to imply that you cannot attack life points directly and get the increased ATK due to the text that says "Raging Flame Sprite must still deal at least 1 point of damage with each attack for its effect to apply".

During our Rise of Destiny Sneak Preview back in 2004 it was ruled that RFS could not attack life points directly and get the 1000 ATK boost. (I was playing at this event and not judging)It had to do damage as a result of battle like Yata-Garasu.

I did a RFS search on this list but could not find anything.

Thanks


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Answer:

When "Raging Flame Sprite" attacks your opponent directly, the damage inflicted is BATTLE DAMAGE.

Which means the effect WILL activate and it WILL gain 1000 ATK.


The FAQ ruling you refer to means that "Raging Flame Sprite" must deal at least 1 point of Battle Damage with its attack, otherwise its effect will not activate.

- If the ATK of the "Raging Flame Sprite" is dropped to 0, by "Reverse Trap" for example, its effect would not activate because it needed to inflict at least 1 point of damage.
- If the opponent used "Waboku", "Raging Flame Sprite" would not inflict any Battle Damage and thus its effect would not activate.

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Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrep
CurtisSchultz_Netrep@hotmail.com
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UDEbot said:
During this weeks tournament a head scratcher came up due to an old local ruling
I recieved from 2004.

If Raging Flame Sprite attacks your opponents life points directly (by bypassing your opponents monsters like Jinzo #7) does it's attack increase by 1000? Or do you have to inflict battle damage via normal battle for the effect to work?

The ruling in the FAQ for Raging Flame Sprite seems to imply that you cannot attack life points directly and get the increased ATK due to the text that says "Raging Flame Sprite must still deal at least 1 point of damage with each attack for its effect to apply".

During our Rise of Destiny Sneak Preview back in 2004 it was ruled that RFS could not attack life points directly and get the 1000 ATK boost. (I was playing at this event and not judging)It had to do damage as a result of battle like Yata-Garasu.

I did a RFS search on this list but could not find anything.

Thanks


----------------------------------------------------------------

Answer:

When "Raging Flame Sprite" attacks your opponent directly, the damage inflicted is BATTLE DAMAGE.

Which means the effect WILL activate and it WILL gain 1000 ATK.


The FAQ ruling you refer to means that "Raging Flame Sprite" must deal at least 1 point of Battle Damage with its attack, otherwise its effect will not activate.

- If the ATK of the "Raging Flame Sprite" is dropped to 0, by "Reverse Trap" for example, its effect would not activate because it needed to inflict at least 1 point of damage.
- If the opponent used "Waboku", "Raging Flame Sprite" would not inflict any Battle Damage and thus its effect would not activate.

----------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrep
CurtisSchultz_Netrep@hotmail.com
---
You are currently subscribed to judge-yu as: judge@netrep.net.
To unsubscribe, log into your account at www.ude.com/op (click on edit membership link).
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Click to expand...
wouldn't Raging Flame Sprite still get the boost even if it doesn't deal damage (Waboku, Reverse Trap, Kuriboh) because it's text says it just has to succsesfully attacks your opponent directly it gains the 1000 point boost.

Raging Flame Sprite text
This card can attack your opponent's Life Points directly. Each time this card successfully attacks directly, increase the ATK of this card by 1000 points.

thank you
cody christensen
lvl 1 judge yugioh
 
A question to "geminies." In other words, backing up the judge's ruling that Raging Flame Sprite doesn't get the boost if the attack is either negated or damage is reduced to 0, since inflicting 0 is not a successful attack.
 
Jathro said:
Would you consider an attack that inflicts no damage a success?
Click to expand...


His attack wasn't stopped by anything. Just the damage that was dealt that was reduced. eaven if you didn't deal damage his attack still went through( no damage of course). so of course i would say it was succesful.

you still have to go through damage calculation eitherno it was just zero points. (rule book)

wouldn't you think that with all the cards that had to deal damage to get effects that ude/konami make one just have to get it's attack through.
 
germinies said:
His attack wasn't stopped by anything. Just the damage that was dealt that was reduced. eaven if you didn't deal damage his attack still went through( no damage of course). so of course i would say it was succesful.
Click to expand...
I attempted to argue this exact same point waaay back when this card 1st came out. Unfortunately, for a direct attack to be considered 'successfull', you must deal at least 1 point damage to your opponent. I can probably hunt down the thread and see what eventually made me give up my point.

[edit]For a mod...How does germinies have 0 posts, when he's clearly posted at least twice in this thread alone?..lol. Is there something wrong with the post counter?

Thanks.
 
pssvr said:
An attack that deals no damage is still successful. I can destroy your Gravity Bind even if you Trap Hole my mobius, so therefore I can boost my Raging even if you Waboku it.
Click to expand...

These examples are nowhere near each other.

Mobius effect activates when he is successfully summoned, Trap Hole doesn't negate the summon it just destroys the monster after he has been successfully summoned.

Maybe this will help:
"Spirit Reaper" only forces your opponent to discard when "Spirit Reaper" attacks directly (such as when your opponent has no monsters on the field), AND when it inflicts at least 1 point of damage to the opponent's Life Points. So if your opponent uses "Kuriboh", "Waboku", or "Tornado Wall" to prevent the damage, "Spirit Reaper" does not force the opponent to discard.
Click to expand...

So if you used Horn of Heaven to negate Mobius' being summoned his effect would not trigger, and if you inflict no damage with an attack it is not successful.
 
you are correct in technicality, anthony. I should have been more clear. what I meant was that I FEEL raging still attacks even when he inflicts no damage. but the rulings side with you. please read my intro
 
0 Battle Damage is just that. No Battle Damage. I've alway been a little perplexed as to why so many feel differently about this.

If I have 0 Dollars in my wallet, then I have no dollars in my wallet. Suppose I go into the drive-way with a baseball bat and swing a total of ten times with the intention of smashing your windsheild. Now suppose out of those ten swings, I miss each time. Do you think a judge would give you a red cent for sueing me for doing 0 hits of damage? Not likely.

While that may seem simplified, its because its a very simple mathematic involved. 0 points of damage is like swingin into the air. Its like throwing a punch at an adversary and missing. It's unsuccesful.
 
All Wabaku dose is reduse battle damage to 0 and protect your monsters for that turn.It dosen't stop an attack, It just makes the attack unsuccessful.
Successful Attack- a declared attack by 1 monster that dose >0LP of damage of destroys an opponents monster.
 
Okay but we're talking about completely different things. Waboku affects damage calculation and Mystic Swordsman activates his effect before damage calculation so Waboku has absolutely nothing to say about it.

You need to see it more like this:

Mystic Swordsman is attacking a face-down Spirit Reaper. Spirit Reaper is laughing because he can't be destroyed in battle so what does he care if you attack him? All of a sudden Spirit Reaper is in the graveyard saying "What was that?" And Mystic Swordsman says "I don't have to defeat you in battle, I destroyed you by my effect." As long as the attack (or Mystic's effect) wasn't negated Reaper is a goner. Wouldn't mean anything if Reaper's controller had activated Waboku either, this is not an effect that kicks in during or after damage calculation so it doesn't care about Waboku.

Now in contrast Spirit Reaper and Raging Flame Sprite have to "successfully" attack and do damage in order for their effects to trigger. The devil is in the details. Effects in this game trigger at varying times and with specific requirements and that is what makes it so complex and enjoyable.
 
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