Spirit Monsters...

B

Blackscorp

Poison?... Loaded!!
I have a pair of question about Spirit monsters that i would like your help to understand.

1- At what point the returning to the hand occur during the End Phase?


2- How many times this effect/condition trigger?


3- Can some body explain me why would a spirit monsters return to the hand after being removed by Interdimensional Matter Transporter?


I Use to believe that when a monster is removed from the field and returned by the effect of Interdimensional Matter Transporter it was considered a NEW instance of the monster and there fore it was separated from any effect or condition that was affecting the previews instance of the card (except for Change of Heart and family).


I also believe that in the case of Spirit Monsters, since both effects where mine, i could (in the case that the effect/condition didn't Disappear) decide to activate the effect of the spirit monster first and the effect of Interdimensional Matter Transporter so i could keep my Spirit Monster on the field.


I know the ruling about Spirit Monsters Vs Interdimensional Matter Transporter... I just can't grasp the mechanic behind it.... :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
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1. any time during the end phase if more than one effect go off at end phase you choose the order

2. 1 time as far as i know (don't understand question)

3. since it retured to the field dueing the end phase and it still your end phase when the spirte monster retures to your hand
 
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Blackscorp said:
I have a pair of question about Spirit monsters that i would like your help to understand.


1- At what point the returning to the hand occur during the End Phase?

If there is an effect that resolves or can only be activated during your End Phase, like IMT vs "Ectoplasmer" vs Spirit Monster, you can choose to resolve Ectoplasmer first (if the Spirit Monster is removed by IMT), then resolve IMT, then the Spirit Monster, since he is FACE-UP at the End Phase of the turn, HE MUST RETURN TO HAND per his effect.


2- How many times this effect/condition trigger?

Since you cannot Special Summon a Spirit Monster, generally you will only get one opportunity to trigger this effect.

3- Can some body explain me why would a spirit monsters return to the hand after being removed by Interdimensional Matter Transporter?

In the text of any Spirit Monster Card, it clearly states that if the monster is face-up during the End Phase of the turn, it is returned to hand. A Spirit monster cannot be removed from play face-down by IMT, so it returns to the field "face-up" and must return to hand and the End Phase as required.




I Use to believe that when a monster is removed from the field and returned by the effect of Interdimensional Matter Transporter it was considered a NEW instance of the monster and there fore it was separated from any effect or condition that was affecting the previews instance of the card (except for Change of Heart and family).

Effects generally do reset. But in the case of Spirit Monsters, if they are face-up at End Phase, it doesnt matter if they werent summoned. They return to hand.


I also believe that in the case of Spirit Monsters, since both effects where mine, i could (in the case that the effect/condition didn't Disappear) decide to activate the effect of the spirit monster first and the effect of Interdimensional Matter Transporter so i could keep my Spirit Monster on the field.

You cannot resolve a Spirit Monsters effect since it would be removed from play when you tried to activate it. Its not Strike Ninja.


I know the ruling about Spirit Monsters and Interdimensional Matter TransporterInterdimensional Matter Transporter.. I just can't grasp the mechanic behind it.... :confused: :confused: :confused:
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I hope this can shed light on your confusion....
 
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Thanks a lot masterwoo0.

Could you explain me please, why the same mechanic used for Strike Ninja can not be used in this case?

Is the returning to the hand an effect or a condition?

You know... i'm starting to get tired of this game....
 
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Spirit monster's effect cannot be resolved while it's removed from play, because it has to be face up on the field to be resolved. Strike ninja's condition is resolved while it is still removed from play.
 
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Sprit Monsters fail to include in thier card text what would happen if they were removed from the field, but I believe they always intended (and it is probably clearer in the Japanese text) that Spirit Monsters return to your hand during the End Phase of a turn that they are face-up on the field, period. This is why the included the "flipped face-up" portion of the effect, probably not realizing that that would be unclear down the line when newer card effects removed them from play temporarily.
 
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Different Dimension Gate

Card Text:

Select 1 Monster Card each from you and your opponent's sides of the field and remove them from play. When this card is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, return those monsters to the field in the same battle position as when they were removed from play.

Ruling from Different Dimension Gate (regarding Spirit monsters)

When a Spirit Monster is removed with "Different Dimension Gate", if it returns to play after the turn it was Summoned or Flip Summoned, it doesn't go back to the owner's hand.


Now I know it comes back on a different turn...but just because it's face up doesn't mean it returns automatically. This is the best way around so far that I can find to keep the spirit monster on the field besides the direct support cards for Spirit Monsters.
 
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John Danker said:
Different Dimension Gate

Card Text:

Select 1 Monster Card each from you and your opponent's sides of the field and remove them from play. When this card is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, return those monsters to the field in the same battle position as when they were removed from play.

Ruling from Different Dimension Gate (regarding Spirit monsters)

When a Spirit Monster is removed with "Different Dimension Gate", if it returns to play after the turn it was Summoned or Flip Summoned, it doesn't go back to the owner's hand.


Now I know it comes back on a different turn...but just because it's face up doesn't mean it returns automatically. This is the best way around so far that I can find to keep the spirit monster on the field besides the direct support cards for Spirit Monsters.
Click to expand...
And with that, all its saying is that the End Phase has passed for the turn it was flipped face-up or summoned, so it would then remain on the field until the End Phase of the turn it actually returned to the field on.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
And with that, all its saying is that the End Phase has passed for the turn it was flipped face-up or summoned, so it would then remain on the field until the End Phase of the turn it actually returned to the field on.
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I would think so, but isn't this ruling contradicting that.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
And with that, all its saying is that the End Phase has passed for the turn it was flipped face-up or summoned, so it would then remain on the field until the End Phase of the turn it actually returned to the field on.
Click to expand...

No, that's not what it is saying. It's saying the Spirit Monster is free from returning to the hand during that turn's end phase and any following end phases.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
I would think so, but isn't this ruling contradicting that.
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If this is a way around keeping a Spirit Monster on the field "permanently" I havent heard of it, so it could be, but I doubt thats what it means.

I think its only saying that if the card returns to the field, say, during the Standby Phase from someone using "Mystical Space Typhoon", it wouldnt cause the monster to IMMEDIATELY return to hand. It would remain until the End Phase as normal.
 
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John Danker said:
No, that's not what it is saying. It's saying the Spirit Monster is free from returning to the hand during that turn's end phase and any following end phases.
Click to expand...
I guess that's a different way of making it work... Makes Yamata Dragon and Hino more playable.
 
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John Danker said:
Different Dimension Gate

Card Text:

Select 1 Monster Card each from you and your opponent's sides of the field and remove them from play. When this card is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, return those monsters to the field in the same battle position as when they were removed from play.

Ruling from Different Dimension Gate (regarding Spirit monsters)

When a Spirit Monster is removed with "Different Dimension Gate", if it returns to play after the turn it was Summoned or Flip Summoned, it doesn't go back to the owner's hand.


Now I know it comes back on a different turn...but just because it's face up doesn't mean it returns automatically. This is the best way around so far that I can find to keep the spirit monster on the field besides the direct support cards for Spirit Monsters.
Click to expand...


That exact ruling was what make me believe that Interdimensional Matter Transporter would work the same way, I think i over looked that the monster returned in other turn.
 
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Ooh! one of my favorite loopholes is that DDGate + Spirit monster.

To me, the mechanics are clearly stated. All spirit monsters contain the last sentence that says the monster is returned to the hand during the End Phase of the SAME turn it was Normal Summoned, Flip Summoned, or flipped face up.

IMT does in fact return the spirit to the field during that same End Phase. Different Dimension Gate does not. It does not even summon. It simply returns the monster to the field in the same position as when it left. So long as that was face up, the spirit has escaped the "during the same turn" part.

However, DDGate isnt the best way. Dimensionhole is :) Just like DD Gate, Dimensionhole simply "returns" the monster to the field during the following Standby Phase. That isnt the same turn that the spirit was summoned, so it stays until removed by another card effect.
 
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