tornado wall versus umi versus umi

[woltarr]

Tornado Wall
Attrib: Trap Card
Group: Trap
Icon:Continuous
This card can only be activated when "Umi" is active on the field. As long as "Umi" remains face-up on the field, any damage from attacking monsters to your Life Points becomes 0. When "Umi" is destroyed or removed from the field, this card is also destroyed.

Umi
Attrib: Magic Card
Group: Magic
Icon:Field
Increases the ATK and DEF of all Fish, Sea Serpent, Thunder, and Aqua-Type monsters by 200 points. Also decreases the ATK and DEF of all Machine and Pyro-Type monsters by 200 points.


scenario

player 1 has umi face up and tornado wall face up

player 2 plays another umi from his hand , sending the previus one to grave

the question is

just send umi is enough to trigguer the condition placed on tornado wall?

"When "Umi" is destroyed or removed from the field, this card is also destroyed."


in regards to previous rules on maiden of aqua versus tornado wall versus umi

If "Maiden of the Aqua", "Umi", and "Tornado Wall" are all on your side of the field, and "Umi" is destroyed, "Tornado Wall" is not destroyed because "Maiden of the Aqua" treats the field as "Umi" as soon as "Umi" leaves play.

the answer would be : since the final result of send umi to grave is that umi(2) remain on the field, tornado wall would remain too, by extrapolating the rule above

fact is , i am not satisfied with this rules because the condition placed on "tornado wall"

i also will coment another rule based on toons

"when toon world is destroyd all toons on both sides of the field are destroyed too"

once a condition is placed on toon monsters that they must be destroyed if a toon world leaves the field. it will afct both sides of the field

in similar manner, once the condition place on "tornado wall" is met, he also should leave the field

i will thanks any imput

woltarr

 

[masterwoo0]

If Maiden of Aqua is on the field and a card requiring "Umi" to be active is played, as long as Maiden of Auqa is face-up, the field is treated as Umi and the card can be activated.

If another field card is played, like Mystic Plasma Zone, then the field is no longer treated as Umi, but Maiden of Aqua is not destroyed.

In your scenario, if the actual field card "Umi" or "A Legendary Ocean" is activated while Maiden of Aqua is face-up, they take over and Maiden of Aqua is no longer in affect.

Since Maiden of Aqua is not "technically" a field card and would not be destroyed when a field card is played, as long as she is face-up on the field when either "Umi" or "A Legendary Ocean" is destroyed, the field would then remain as Umi due to Maiden of Aqua's effect and Tornado Wall would not be destroyed as "Umi" has not been destroyed. 

 

[woltarr]

If Maiden of Aqua is on the field and a card requiring "Umi" to be active is played, as long as Maiden of Auqa is face-up, the field is treated as Umi and the card can be activated.

If another field card is played, like Mystic Plasma Zone, then the field is no longer treated as Umi, but Maiden of Aqua is not destroyed.

In your scenario, if the actual field card "Umi" or "A Legendary Ocean" is activated while Maiden of Aqua is face-up, the take over and Maiden of Aqua is no longer in affect.

Since Maiden of Aqua is not "technically" a field card and would not be destroyed when a field card is played, as long as she is face-up on the field when either "Umi" or "A Legendary Ocean" is destroyed, the field would then remain as Umi due to Maiden of Aqua's effect and Tornado Wall would not be destroyed as "Umi" has not been destroyed. 

errrr nope

you missed the point is

"will tornado wall be destroyed when umi 1 is replaced by umi 2?"

the whole rule about maiden of aqua versus umi is only to specify that even if the condition is met-umi left the field- tornado wall was not destroyed

woltarr

 

[masterwoo0]

Okay. Umi is not the same as "Toon World". In order to play Toon World, you must pay a cost to activate. Either player can use an active Umi regardless of who activated it.

The way I interpret the ruling is if Umi is replaced by another field type card other than another Umi, or, A Legendary Ocean, then Tornado Wall is destroyed since there is no active "Umi" on the field.

This card can only be activated when "Umi" is active on the field. As long as "Umi" remains face-up on the field, any damage from attacking monsters to your Life Points becomes 0. When "Umi" is removed from the field, this card is also destroyed.

Umi replaced by another Umi means that Umi has not been removed from the field. Umi replaced by Mystic Plasma Zone means that Umi has been removed from the field.

 

[mortals]

Actually, the act of removing the first "Umi" (destroying i think but i'm not sure) to place the second one will trigger the destruction of "Tornado Wall".

 

[masterwoo0]

The first Umi cannot be destroyed until the second Umi is activated successfully.  Remember that it can still be chained to.  So after the second Umi resolves, it would destroy the first, but Umi is still active.

That's how I see it.

Hopefully we are talking about a Player 1 plays....  Player 2 plays....

 

[woltarr]

The first Umi cannot be destroyed until the second Umi is activated successfully.  Remember that it can still be chained to.  So after the second Umi resolves, it would destroy the first, but Umi is still active.

That's how I see it.

i will quote the bold part

the rules in regards of field cards is

1-ther can be only one field card active on the field at any time

2-when a new field card is played, it imediately sends the previuos one to grave

so it is not possible plce umi 2 on the field , THEM send umi 1 to grave

umi 1 goes first to grave

them umi 2 takes his place

woltarr

 

[densetsu_x]

The first Umi cannot be destroyed until the second Umi is activated successfully. Remember that it can still be chained to. So after the second Umi resolves, it would destroy the first, but Umi is still active.

That's how I see it.

Hopefully we are talking about a Player 1 plays.... Player 2 plays....

Actually, according the updated ruling on field spells (that allows the player who has a field spell to play a new one and destroy the old one), if a second field spell is played, the first one is destroyed. Then if the second one is negated (say by "Magic Jammer") there will be no field spells left in play. So based on that I would say that the first field spell would be destroyed and the second one would come into play.

So since "Umi" would be destroyed before the other one comes into play, "Tornado Wall" would be destroyed as well, even if it is another "Umi" that is played.

- Andrew

 

[masterwoo0]

Maybe Im just missing something, but I thought we were talking about Player 1 having his own Umi active and Player 2 activating a second Umi... 

If Player 1 removes his own Umi to play another one, of course Umi is removed from the field and Tornado Wall would be destroyed.  If Player 2 activates his own Umi, the first Umi Player 1 activated cannot be destroyed until Player 2's resolves successfully.

 

[densetsu_x]

Maybe Im just missing something, but I thought we were talking about Player 1 having his own Umi active and Player 2 activating a second Umi...

If Player 1 removes his own Umi to play another one, of course Umi is removed from the field and Tornado Wall would be destroyed. If Player 2 activates his own Umi, the first Umi Player 1 activated cannot be destroyed until Player 2's resolves successfully.

Actually it didn't matter who was playing the 2nd field spell. As soon as that was placed on the field, the first one was destroyed. If the second one was then negated, then no field spell would be left.

I forget which thread was talking about this before, but a quick search should find it.

- A

 

[n00b]

Um...I'm not sure about the answer to this question, but if a player has a Field Spell Card out, that player cannot play another Field Spell Card until their Field Spell Card is destroyed. If one player has a Field Spell Card, and the other player plays a Field Spell Card, then the first Field Spell Card goes byebye. Just thought I should point that out.

EDIT: Oh, apparently you can replace your own Field Spell Card in Japan, and that's a rule they're going to fix in the rulebook here. That's nice to know, but it seems strange that they would screw a game rule up that bad.

 

[densetsu_x]

http://nforums.netrep.net/index.php/topic,716.0.html

http://p083.ezboard.com/fedoshomepagebbsfrm12.showMessage?topicID=3743.topic

*rereads article*

Kenjiblade (one of the UDE Netreps) is the one who made that claim getting his info from Kevin.

And in the Umi vs Umi/Tornado Wall:

1) The new "Umi" is activated.
2) The old "Umi" is destroyed. Since the new "Umi" hasn't resolved yet, there currently is no active field spell so "Tornado Wall" would be destroyed.
3) The new "Umi" resolves.

- Andrew

P.S. And like I said in the other thread... That ruling makes no sense... but if that's the way it is, then that's the way it is.

 

[OKShadow]

This is from the judge list at UDE dated 11/18/04 18:04:00

This situation was brought up in a forum. If you play Umi or A Legendary Ocean,
removing Another Umi/ALO from the field, would Tornado Wall be destroyed?

Also, can you play a field spell card when you already have one out?



Answer:

"Tornado Wall" would remain in play because the field remained "Umi."


Ah... yes, you can do that. You simply send your current Field Spell Card away to
the Graveyard and place the new one onto the field, similar to Tributing a
monster for a Tribute Summon.

 

[densetsu_x]

And the Part 2 on that from Kevin to "correct" 1 thing that Curtis said:

Actually, when you replace your own Field Spell Card, it's destroyed, not just sent. The new rulebook entry on this (starting with the new Structure Decks) will be:

"There can only be 1 active Field Spell Card on the field at any given time between both players. When a new Field Spell Card is activated, the previous active Field Spell Card is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard."

Kevin Tewart
Game Developer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment

 

[OKShadow]

no prob... just mainly trying to clear up the primary part of the problem regarding tornado wall and umi destroyed by umi. (correct way of saying it I guess)

Mainly just to state that:

Field card on your side CAN be replaced with another on your side.
Tornado wall survives when Umi is replaced by Umi or ALO (Also Umi)