ChaosMachine
New Member
Can he be special summoned on my oppents turn? A side question....DD Warrior Lady Attacks Night Assailant? Graveyard or removed from play? Thanks as always.
Voltanis the Adjudicator
- Thread starter ChaosMachine
- Start date
Dillie-O
Council of Heroes
To my knowledge, and I'm a little rusty at hte moment on EOJ, you cannot special summon Voltanis during your opponents turn. Its effect is only allowed during your turn.
As for your second scenario, if the contoller of DDWL chooses to use the effect then it will be step 2 on the chain because its an optional effect and Night Assailant's effect will be step 1 on the chain because its mandatory. DDWL will RFP both monsters and then NA will destroy a monster on the opponent's side of the field if one still exists. NA doesn't have to remain on the field in order for its effect to go off, it just needs to be properly activated.
Hope this helps!
As for your second scenario, if the contoller of DDWL chooses to use the effect then it will be step 2 on the chain because its an optional effect and Night Assailant's effect will be step 1 on the chain because its mandatory. DDWL will RFP both monsters and then NA will destroy a monster on the opponent's side of the field if one still exists. NA doesn't have to remain on the field in order for its effect to go off, it just needs to be properly activated.
Hope this helps!
"Voltanis the Adjudicator" can be special summoned during your opponent's turn. See above reference.
"Night Assailant" must choose its target at activation. If it chose "D.D. Warrior Lady" and she first removed both monsters from play, then "Night Assailant's" effect would be left with no target to destroy. You may not pick an alternate monster to destroy at this time.
doc
"Night Assailant" must choose its target at activation. If it chose "D.D. Warrior Lady" and she first removed both monsters from play, then "Night Assailant's" effect would be left with no target to destroy. You may not pick an alternate monster to destroy at this time.
doc
soulwarrior
New Member
By the way, most of the times that counter trap is NOT chain link 1. Therefore, your opponent will almost always miss the timing for cards like Bottomless Trap Hole, Torrential and the likes.
soul
soul
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
soulwarrior said:By the way, most of the times that counter trap is NOT chain link 1. Therefore, your opponent will almost always miss the timing for cards like Bottomless Trap Hole, Torrential and the likes.
soul
When you negate the effect of a card, it still resolves, and can mess up timing, however, 80% of Counter Traps negate the activation of the card. If one were originally chain link 2, once it resolves it is as if they were chain link 1, because there was nothing "activated" on the chain previous to it.
So Voltanis can likely become a victim of Bottomless Trap Hole and Torrential Tribute.
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
A monster special summoning itself fromt he hand is not a chainable event.skey23 said:
Voltanis only starts a new chain for its Destruction effect.
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
Kyhotae said:
But you can miss the timing for those cards.
Monster attacks...
Player B activates Magic Cylinder
Player A chains Book of Moon
Player B chains Goblin Out of the
Chain Resolves,
-- Goblin out of the Frying Pan negates the activation of Book of moon (Book of moon doesn't even attempt to resolve)
--In between the 2 (remaining) Chain Links, Voltanis can be summoned.
--Magic Cylinder resolves inflicting X damage.
If fairy monsters were tributed Voltanis' effect begins a new chain. BTH, Torrential can't be activated/chained because Magic Cylinder was the last thing to happen.
Skey, whatever you heard at nationals is hearsay. The FAQ says immediately after the counter traps effects have resolved.
Maybe the original question was whether the 'destruction' effect occured at the time of summoning, and Konami replied, "Voltanis' effect is a triggered effect that starts a new chain after the current one resolves" Well, now if a UDE official passes taht along, s/he'll be quoting out of context, leading to an interpretation of Voltanis' summoning effect being triggered as well.
Well, you can certainly take the direct word of Kevin and Dan as 'hearsay' if you want to. It's entirely possible I misunderstood what they meant, but from my understanding, "Voltanis" will not Special Summon himself until the chain is completely resolved.DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
soulwarrior
New Member
skey23 said:
This is especially funny, because what I stated was a quote from Kevin Tewart at the European Championship, when he made a ruling about Voltanis... *lol*
Maybe we both got something wrong, it would be great if a question like this could make it to the list just for clarification.
// edit:
About the 'the chain link disappears if it gets negated':
From my understanding, this is not true.
Even a negated effect has a chain link and tries to resolve, although it won't. So the last thing to happen was almost never the counter trap's resolution (unless it's Negate Attack), but the 'blank effect' of the card that was originally chain link 1, but got negated.
soul
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
soulwarrior said:From my understanding, this is not true.
Even a negated effect has a chain link and tries to resolve, although it won't. So the last thing to happen was almost never the counter trap's resolution (unless it's Negate Attack), but the 'blank effect' of the card that was originally chain link 1, but got negated.
soul
Spirit Reaper will not destroy itself in 3 scenarios:
(A) Its effect is negated.
(B) It was not face-up at activation of a (non-permanent) spell card targetting it
(C) It was not face-up at resolution of a spell card targetting it.
Now look at the ruling,
"¢ "Spirit Reaper" is destroyed by its own effect after a card that targets it resolves. If a Spell Card targets it, and the activation of that Spell Card is negated (such as with "Magic Jammer"), then "Spirit Reaper" is not destroyed. However, if the effect of the Spell Card was negated, such as if "Imperial Order" is active, then "Spirit Reaper" is destroyed because the Spell Card resolves (even though its effect is negated). Even if "Imperial Order" is already active on the field, you can activate a card such as "Tribute to the Doomed" designating "Spirit Reaper", and "Spirit Reaper" will be destroyed by its own effect.
We know that Spirit Reaper's effect isn't being negated so let's forget about (A).
If a spell card targetting it resolves, then spirit reaper is destroyed (except for case (B)).
Deduction: If spirit reaper is not destroyed, either a card's activation did not happen, or a card's resolution did not happen.
Resolution of a card happens as a result of its activation. So if the card's activation did not happen, then it doesn't resolve.
IF the card is still considered to have activated, then case (B) is not true, therefore:
If Spirit Reaper is not destroyed, the spell card targetting it did not resolve.
The ruling says spirit reaper is not destroyed when the card activated is negated, so then we have two possibilities, both which point to the card not resolving.
The negated card will still take up a Chain Link, though, for consistency. You can't activate, say, Seven Tools of the Bandit to negate a Trap Card (whatever Trap Card - I'm generalising here) in response to said Trap Card, resolve Tools and simply wipe out the Trap Card from the Chain altogether. That would mean Tools would be Chain Link 1 of a 1-link Chain, which is meaningless.
No, Chain Links remain Chain Links, even if the cards associated with them are negated/destroyed/etc. The Chain is a history of all cards activated within that Chain.
What I suggest is that Chain Links and card effects are separate things, with the latter associated with the former. But if the card effect is negated, while the effect disappears from the Chain, the Chain Link corresponding to it remains as a kind of placeholder to say "yes, a card effect was here". The Chain Link was there in the history, so it must be there during the resolution. But the Chain Link itself does nothing; the effect associated with it does (and that effect can be negated, otherwise known as "severed from the Chain Link").
Activating the actual cards in a Chain associates the card effects with Chain Links, and creates a history of what happened (which cards were activated). Resolving the Chain resolves the card effects, and affects the game however it does. Resolution looks at the history, figures out the appropriate effects (and if some are negated or not), and applies them in the appropriate order. But resolution does not alter the history, otherwise the Chain wouldn't make sense. (Tools clearly resolved, but the effect it negated is wiped out, meaning Tools activated by itself, which is just wrong.) Here the history is important, which is created by the card activations (the physical flipping/throwing down of the cards themselves).
Am I making sense at all? It's 2am for me.
No, Chain Links remain Chain Links, even if the cards associated with them are negated/destroyed/etc. The Chain is a history of all cards activated within that Chain.
What I suggest is that Chain Links and card effects are separate things, with the latter associated with the former. But if the card effect is negated, while the effect disappears from the Chain, the Chain Link corresponding to it remains as a kind of placeholder to say "yes, a card effect was here". The Chain Link was there in the history, so it must be there during the resolution. But the Chain Link itself does nothing; the effect associated with it does (and that effect can be negated, otherwise known as "severed from the Chain Link").
Activating the actual cards in a Chain associates the card effects with Chain Links, and creates a history of what happened (which cards were activated). Resolving the Chain resolves the card effects, and affects the game however it does. Resolution looks at the history, figures out the appropriate effects (and if some are negated or not), and applies them in the appropriate order. But resolution does not alter the history, otherwise the Chain wouldn't make sense. (Tools clearly resolved, but the effect it negated is wiped out, meaning Tools activated by itself, which is just wrong.) Here the history is important, which is created by the card activations (the physical flipping/throwing down of the cards themselves).
Am I making sense at all? It's 2am for me.
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
The whole point of negating the "activation" of the card (which other games don't do) is that history is re-written.
Like under the rulings for Spell Absorption, where you increase your life-points for the spell card before chaining anything to it, but once its activation is negated, you never increased your life points, since the spell card was never activated.
Like under the rulings for Spell Absorption, where you increase your life-points for the spell card before chaining anything to it, but once its activation is negated, you never increased your life points, since the spell card was never activated.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
So then you are suggesting that we have two separate mechanics. One that says if you attempt to Normal Summon a monster, and it is negated, the game state remembers the summon attempt, so you will not get another Normal Summon, but, if you attempt to activate a Spell Card, and the activation is negated (which is pretty much the same thing as negating a summon), the game state will forget it ever happened, even though the card itself is still part of the Chain Link...DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
That's not what I was getting at. The history isn't about what card effects were activated, it's about what cards were activated. It's the play-by-play of the game.DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Chain Links are identical in every respect except their number (which will shortly become important, judging from the new Chain cards). Completely separate to these Chain Links are card effects, which don't actually exist unless they're tied to a Chain Link. The card activation (NOT card effect activation) makes this tie between Chain Link and all card effect information (the card effect itself, what kind of card it was, etc.).
Chain Links are plates, if you want an analogy. Dinner plates, all identical to each other. In a restaurant, at a buffet. Different foods in the buffet represent different card effects. Chicken wings represents the information <Pot of Greed, Normal Spell Card, "Draw 2 cards from your Deck">. But the chicken wings can only exist if they're on the plate.
A card negator comes along. It's a beef steak, sitting on its own plate. It bumps into the chicken wing plate (clumsy waiter) and knocks the chicken wings off. The plate remains fine - it's indestructible. But the chicken wings (i.e. the information they represent) are no longer on it. So on the table you have an empty plate on which the chicken wings were. You can see the plate, but there's nothing in it, so you skim over to the next plate. That happens during resolution of the plate chain.