A Modest Proposal to Fix YGO

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Yes, but I am not concerned with what is good or broken, honestly. I am more concerned with having balanced, yet mechanically consistent, effects. A combination of what you are proposing along with more generic structural changes.

DARN IT!! I went and missed my 666th post!! What kind of Fiend duelist am I? *hangs head in shame*
 
I believe what the author of this proposal is suggesting (those of you on Realms or Duel Forums can recognize him as hmk17) is to get rid of cards that could be used in any old deck. The 'staples' and near-staples that we all know of should be more limited in their use.

Plus, we should make Type and Attribute decks more playable and identify each with a distinguishing characteristic that makes them unique yet competitive.

Example:
EARTH--swarm, relatively high ATK or DEF
FIRE--burn
WATER--easy summons
WIND--field removal
DARK and LIGHT aren't as easy to characterize because monsters do a lot of different things in those attributes, but DARK can go into hand manipulation and LIGHT could try LP manipulation
Dragons--Trample, S/T removal
Warriors--swarm, high ATK
Insects--mill
etc.
etc.
etc.
 
Ah, an Atlanta boy. Good ol hmk~ :) I agree more with the 2nd part about dividing classes of effects, than I do with simple banning of a select list of "overpowered" cards. All that accomplishes is what masterwoo0 mentioned earlier: next thing people will complain about is the next powerhouse available, like Summoned Skull or something.

It may actually come to that. But before it does, I just feel that there has to be a thoroughly analyzed plan of action placed behind it, not just haphazardly chopping away at all the stray branches. If it isnt, all you end up with is a mangled stump.

btw: it occurred to me that if we divide up the effect base like that, then certain types will automatically rise up again. For example, LP manipulation attached to Fairy/Light Types/Attributes is probably going to end up at a disadvantage to another type that controls the hand or field more effectively. That is just the nature of the game. Burn decks can win, but they tend to be much more inconsistent and difficult to use, when compared to standard field control/Beatdown methods.

If there were an even distribution of effects, but one attached to costs or conditions, then each deck would have the ability to stand up to the competition.

Imagine, for example that Light decks had a Harpy Feather Duster. But, they could only use it when their LP was lower/higher than their opponent by a certain amount.

Dark Attribute decks could use their "HFD" only when a certain amount of Dark monsters existed in their Graveyard.

Each type or Attribute could have their own. That allows every deck the same opportunity to use such an effect without "splashing" or sacrificing the overall synergy of their deck.
 
Tiso said:
While we are at it, can we ban Trap Cards? Face-downs scare me.
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LOL! this has certainly cheered me up today :D... lol


Anyways, on the current subject... in simple words this "idea" would just turn the game into the way back traditional Beatdown Decks...

P1 - "Hey my monster has 1900"
P2 - "Darn it, now how do I get rid of that thing?" <waits to draw another 1900 atk monster"
 
Well there is not much we can for STAPLES except just to control as much as them as possible. Konami can fix this by making updated versions of these staples and giving them to Theme support. That is the right step. A Final Frontier Deck has a Quick-Play Dark Hole and it can only be activated if you have Macrocosmos out on the field. Elemental Hero has a Heavy Storm of sorts for their own Deck. Dragons been had a Heavy Storm. Cards like Tribe-Infecting Virus take away any chance theme Decks have at ever being playable. Cards will always be splashed in Deck based on their stapletastic nature because people just flat out refuse to Duel with a Deck of their own creation, but rather take the safe route and use cards that will net them victory. No Deck is perfect and everyone lose, but at least when I win or lose I do it on my own power.
 
Thats changing the game fundamentally Tiso; what YGO lacks fundamentally is a resource to use your cards, its whats gonna kill it eventually. Only resource in the game right now is the amount of cards in your hand, you can only do as much as the cards in your hand.

Not to disrespect Tiso, but seriously, people who complain about originality and cookie cutter-ness need to stop. Its a game, its not a looking glass into your soul, players play the cards, the cards don't play themselves. No other player is playing the deck for you, it isn't a 2v1 its a 1v1 with your skill/luck v opponent's skill/luck. As long as you know why a card is in your deck, you can play anything you want, cookie cutter or not. Its the same as people who complain about lucky draws, forgetting the fact that they themselves have had the same opportunity to draw a game winner.

TIV doesnt kill theme decks, it shouldnt nuke the field for 2+ mons, thats the themed player's fault for overextending himself. The funadmental characteristic of YGO is the momentum swings very very quickly so protect yourself against that with proper timing and hand management.

YGO hasn't progressed far enough for seperation in play like in MTG. If you haven't noticed, alot of the sets is just absolute high costing trash.
 
Oh, alright, so it is MY fault or the Theme Players fault for actually making a Theme instead of being like you and just making a Deck just to win, with no theme whatsoever and just a bunch of cards splashed together? It is that type of mentality that makes the game in the state what it is. Card resources we have, no one bothers to understand this. We have draw power and hand power. What Konami needs to do is make more of these type of cards, like Cyber Phoenix giving us a card back. Yu-Gi-Oh! at its core is a game that is meant to be fun to play and challenging. Why would they keep bringing out sets if no one is going to make a theme Deck. The fact Konami is pushing Elemental Hero theme makes your point moot. Tribe-Infecting Virus does kill themes.
 
I think I may have inadvertantly directed the comments in a direction I wsn't getting at. When I said errataing Harpie's Feather Duster to make it Harpie Lady specific, I was only making a point using it as an example.

My overall point was that errating certain cards to keep them good cards, but make them more difficult yo use. I'm not one of these VS layers who belive that there is nothing but originality in that game. If anything, I see the same Cookie Cutters over and over again there too. The only thing I do see that is a little different is that you can stl loose playing a cookie cutter deck to something ridiculously off the wall. And the off-the-wall dack can still hold it's own and even become competative with minor tweaking.

VS has a Dark Hole. It's called Gama Bomb. The only thing is the way the game isdesigned, you can't play it until late game, and can't play it until the start of the Combat Phase. Is it broken? In some decks, yes. Is it hard to pull of? In some decks, yes.

The point is it's broken enough to still see play and balanced enough to not be in every deck. Errata Yu-Gi-Oh! cards in such a well thought out sensible way that involves careful examination and, of course, play testing. A ban list, while somewhat easier to do, has sigificantly more draw backs to it, for the players as well as the game developers. A new set of erratas keeps the cards in circulation curculated, brings old cards back from the dead in a new and exciting way and opens up a new world of possibilities. It won't get rid of cookie cutters. There is no way to get rid of cookie cutters.

And beside that, an list are a relatively new thing for us, and not something that has settled well with Yu-Gi-Oh! players. But erratas are something we been used to for years.
 
Even if that did for example, that would still be something of an improvement. Since that is probably not going to happen, Konami needs to make more cards like what you described. Good enough to be used, but cannot just be splashed into any Deck. For your example, Macrocosmos + Grand Cross would seem like something people would put in their Decks, regardless if it matches the theme or not (which the theme is Final Frontier, Alchemy Deck) just so they can have a Quick-Play Dark Hole. Cards like Dark Hole, Raigeki, Monster Reborn, Change of Heart, and so on should remain on the list and Konami should focus more on replacing these type of cards with cards that work similiar to them in nature but only for certain themes, like how Duel Masters has its cards. Light Civilization has Holy Awe, but you cannot just simply put it in your Deck and expect to use its near uber power without actually basing a Deck partially on LIGHT.
 
Digital Jedi said:
And beside that, an list are a relatively new thing for us, and not something that has settled well with Yu-Gi-Oh! players. But erratas are something we been used to for years.
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lol! We may have been dealing with errata for years, but Im not so sure it has settled with players any more than the banlist.:D
 
Honestly, I think that the banlists make the game more fun. Every six months we have to re think our deck ideas and see if we can get creative. Sure there are cookie cutter approaches, but that is life... when people see that something works they want to try it, and if they can improve on it they do. But most people want to win too, and once a winning combo is found, it comes down to how you play that combination of cards that wins or loses. In the end, if YOu and I both have the same deck, its going to come down to who was wiser with their card management, and who took that big risk at just the right time to finish the opponent off... not OH MAN ITS A COOKIE CUTTER DECK...
On the flipside, there is obviously a reason why certain people venture out and try to come up with new ideas. They want to figure out a NEW competitive edge that no one will expect, and take them by surprise. I remember a few years ago when Skill Drain came out. I dotn remember who all ran Skill Drain Decks, but I DO REMEMBER no one in my meta did. No body expected it, and had to revamp the side decks just to counter it when it came up. What Im saying is simple..... Most People are sheep (no offense to anyone). when they see something works they do it. But they also want to win, so they take that winning deck and try to tweek it to their own personal style so that they can win.... But this is what makes Yugioh so AWESOME !!!! There are endless possibilities to what CAN WIN> >> and that is why there ARE people that go out and try to figure out a different angle to counter everyone out there.... The Ban List is awesome, it makes us Up and get creative every six months, , , and they are getting better at making the Banned / Restricted lists too...
Does anyone remember when the Catapult Turtle / Scientist OTK WASNT around?? ya... then someone thought of a cool angle and abused it, then it caught on....... ... do you remember when Chaos wasnt dominent yet?? Then someone figured out how to make it kick butt, and everyone followed suit..... Do any of you remember when you were playing with Pokemon cards, and saw a cartoon called Yugioh, and thought , WOW I WANT TO TRY THAT GAME OUT !!! Now here you are..... and everyone and their brother is here with you... It all starts somewhere, then everyone else wants to do it too..... Do you remember when the only game around was Dungeons and Dragons and Magic?? ..... ( and if you dont, you better thank all of the followers that jumped on board that bandwagon, cuz we would not have THIS GAME TODAY if it didnt happen then... Sure there are decks we are upset about winning all the time... and sure there could be fixes, but come on... that is what is fun about it.... it the thinking that makes if fun... its the winning that keeps us around.... and its the fact that no matter how innovative we all are, and how much we want credit for changing things,once we think of that cool new idea, a bunch of people will try it too cuz they want to do the NEW COOL THING ,Why do we as people gravitate towards new trends... we just do. Why do you want that cool looking new sports car, does taht make sense??/?? , we all drive or ride in an automobile that someone else had the idea for, that is made just like thousands of other automobiles... I would say that Henry Ford Created a pretty good cookie cutter approach to making a car.... it sure sux that we all have thoughtlessly followed suit and used that vehicle to get us where we want to go... .. just like the vehicle we call a Cookie Cutter deck that gets us to the win in a duel.....
Just enjoy the game and stop B****ing about it.... sure its not a perfect system, but enough is enough.... its not as big of a deal as everyone is trying to make it....
Laterz

PS...EDIT:: I think that Errataing some cards would be a great idea... if its too powerful, give it a cost..... Honestly I thought CED having a 2000lp cost to use was reasonable to make everyone top deck.... comboing with Sangan / yata was too much, but that was a win condition... and that is why we have cards like Divine Wrath, and Solemn Judgment
 
Well we didn't get Divine Wrath in time to combat Chaos Emperor Dragon (though I loved using Barrell Behind the Door to blast my opponent into oblivion when he used it) and as long as you had something like Marie the Fallen in your graveyard that stupid Yata had a much harder time pecking you to death. I personally have been an advocate of the Errata to balance option for quite some time. Yes the game is suffering from the unenlightened issueing cards without thinking through all the potential abuses, and yes the intermediary they have chosen to Supply those cards (and the rulings that govern them) should be... (I'll just stop now before I get mean)

Anyway I think the Ban list has helped move the game forward. I think that there are many many areas that have yet to be even tapped which could add to this game (and hope that it continues for years to come). I personally think that the idea of moving towards a "Themes base" such as suggested by the original posted suggestions is giving up too much Yugioh to adopt Magic principles.

There is nothing wrong with not having "resources" in this game. This is not Magic 2. It isn't in need of a complete restructuring to make it survive. It does desperately need to have people at the top that care more about the longevity of the game and the principles of the game mechanics instead of treating them like a secondary hassle while raking in the cash. But that is nothing more than Corporate reality.

We will (I'm sure) continue to get cards that can be abused due to lack of foresight. How the game handles them (Errata and tweak vs. ignore, CC and Ban) is what will show people that the game is being handled intelligently and has a brighter future.

A few new partnerships to kick out some good promotions and give a reason to release more of the OCG only cards faster (McDonalds, Dominoes or whoever else might be listening hint, hint) would certainly be well received and help to move more product off the shelves, not to mention getting back into the Saturday morning lineup if they truly want to have a chance at maintaining sales at the previous level.
 
I can just see Domino's commercials with Jaden and Chazz delivering Pizza's to Yugioh or Kaiba, and instead of money for tips, they give them those stupid "Tip Cards"...
 
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