All questions about Priority come here first...

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helpoemer316

Will game for food
Priority

By Michael Palmer

It's come to my attention that many of the questions being asked on our forums here at netrep.net have been the same questions regarding priority and specific monsters and how they interact. First, I'll say the golden rule that no one seems to understand as of right now. A monster does not have priority! YOU THE PLAYER HAVE PRIORITY!!! Some people just don't understand that so the first thing we always say while answering questions is "This monster doesn't have priority, no monster has priority. The player has the priority." So make sure you rephrase your questions before posting them if you ever ask about a monster's priority.

With that pushed aside, I thought up a few situations with certain monsters that you could use their effects with while using YOUR priority:

Player A summons Tribe-Infecting Virus to the field.
Player B responds with Trap Hole.
Player A uses Tribe's effect to destroy all monsters of a specific type on the field.
Player B's Trap Hole then resolves destroying Tribe-Infecting Virus.

Reason: The reason you can do this is because when Trap Hole is activated, Tribe's effect is already present on the field. With that in mind Tribe can use it's effect at least once before being destroyed because it is active on the field. This is the same reason why you can't Trap Hole, Bottomless Trap Hole, or Torrential Tribue a Jinzo, because Jinzo's effect is active as soon as it hits the field, not after the activation of these traps.

Player A summons Magicial Scientist.
Player B activates Ring of Destruction.
Player A activates Scientist's face up effect and pays 1000 Life Points and special summons a Fusion monster.
Player B's Ring of Destruction then resolves destroying Scientist and dealing 300 points of damage to both players.

Reason: Basically see the same as TIV. A rule of thumb is that whenever a person summons a monster, it's effect is face up on the field, unless other wise negated by another card, such as an already face up Skill Drain. Remember if Skill Drain is face up and active before you summon a monster with a face up effect, that effect is negated as soon as it's summoned, since Skill Drain was active before the summon it's effect would in sense of the term, have priority over the summoned monster, but remember what I said, cards don't have priority, people do. It's should be common sense that an effect that was already in play before a monster was summoned or another card was played would resolve before that cards effect would.

Player A tribute summons Mobius The Frost Monarch and targets two spell/trap cards on the field.
Player B responds with Torrential Tribute.
Player A's Mobius The Frost Monarch resolves since it's effect is activated as soon as hits the field and the targetted spell or trap cards that were targetted upon summoning are destroyed. If Torrential Tribute is one of these targetted cards, it does not negate Torrential Tribute.
Player B's Torrential Tribute then resolves destroying all of the monsters on the field, including Mobius The Frost Monarch.

Reason: This one should be apparent, the effect activates as soon as it's summoned, and this means that as soon as Mobius hits the field, the player controlling Mobius gets to select up to two targets with it's effect. Then Player B has the right to respond with a trap after the selection is made. Mobius's effect would resolve as normal and than the trap card activated in response to him will resolve as normal.

Here's a tad bit different of a situation...

Player A's D.D. Warrior Lady attacks Player B's Face Down Card.
Player B flips their Face Down Card and reveals their own D.D. Warrior Lady.
Damage Calculation is reached and Player A takes 100 points of damage for running into D.D.'s 1600 defense with a 1500 ATK.
The question being is who gets the choice to remove first?

This one is quite simple, the turn player would have first choice on whether or not to remove. Player A would be the person to make the first choice on this, if they choose not remove, than it goes to Player B who has the choice now with their D.D. Warrior Lady. If they choose to remove than both monsters are removed from play. If not, than nothing happens and both monsters stay on the field, Player B's in face up defense position and Player A's in face up attack position.

That's enough for cards you would have "priority" with. It should be a little more evident that cards with normal face up effects would have their effect active on the field before any trap can be activated in response to the summon (not chained to the summon since another Golden Rule is that summons have no spell speed, which means for you new guys, they're non-chainable).

CARDS THAT A PLAYER HAS NO PRIORITY WITH!!!

If you read the above, you'll notice that that means that what is coming next is cards that you have no priority over to activate certain effects they control. First I'll talk about the one card that almost everyone wants to confuse it would seem.

Player A summons Breaker The Magical Warrior
Player B activates Bottomless Trap Hole
Player A chooses to use priority... but wait, what does that mean!?

Explanation: Breaker's effect is very tricky and some people don't understand how it's tricky. Breaker basically almost has two effects. The first is the addition of the counter, without this counter you cannot activate the secondary effect, so it's essential. The face up effect of Breaker as soon as it's summoned is the addition of the counter, not it's "breaking" effect itself. So the only priority you have when an opponent responds to the summon of your Breaker is whether or not to add the counter or not. By the time you would have the ability or opportunity to remove that counter, Breaker would no longer be on the field due to the responded trap card. Many confuse this card as a card that would have the ability to use your prioity with and use the effect, but you can't.


I really see no reason to go any further in detail with other cards. Anyone who has a good understanding of the game should be able to read this and make sense of it and be able to tell what you can use priority with and what you cannot use it with. It's a game mechanic in Yu-Gi-Oh! that many people become confused with and it'll be more evident how to use it as the game progresses, but for now, if you're confused with any other cards, you may respond to this post with any questions that you may have and myself and others will try and help you out with your problems.
 
helpoemer316 said:
I discussed it with Seidle on MSN, the conclusion we came across was that he agreed with me and just wants me to re-write everything to explain it easier.

I'm doing that sometime later this week, no worries Mike, you don't have to go all drawn out with another explanation, lol.

Oh man! It took like 15 minutes to type all that in and then edit it 18 times. :p Was I right for the most part?
 
djp952 said:
Basically, you either use it or lose it.  You cannot activate 2 Spell Speed 1 effects at the same time without your opponent being able to respond/chain, and once you're in a chain, you can't use Spell Speed 1 effects until you regain turn player priority again.

But the question is "does it have to be the Summoned Monster's effect used with the priority?"
I would have tended to believe that since the game mechanic has always said the opponent gets the chance to respond to the summon that "yes, it would need to be the Summoned Monster's effect used".  But I've been seeing quite a few suggestions that point to the player getting to activate a trap or use another Monster's effect with their Priority.
 
anthonyj said:
But the question is "does it have to be the Summoned Monster's effect used with the priority?"
I would have tended to believe that since the game mechanic has always said the opponent gets the chance to respond to the summon that "yes, it would need to be the Summoned Monster's effect used".  But I've been seeing quite a few suggestions that point to the player getting to activate a trap or use another Monster's effect with their Priority.

Unfortunately, we have no official mechanic to refer to (in the TCG environment), but as I understand it, YOU have the priority.  Summoning a monster does not change that fact, since there is no Spell Speed involved.  I maintain that you can activate ANY legal Spell Speed 1 monster effect already waiting on your side of the field until proven wrong, just like helpoemer316.  The opponent would have to chain their response to whatever SS1 effect you activate.

edit: (man, I like that modify button).  Moving forward, I would imagine that an official mechanic would include giving you the ability to even activate a Spell Card before passing priority, if we are not constrained to "the Summoned monster".
 
If this is the case wouldn't that call into question appropriate timing for effects such as Torrential Tribute. You must activate TT "when a monster is summoned" if I can activate a spell card after summoning my monster before my opponent can do anything wouldn't that prevent the "when"?
 
anthonyj said:
If this is the case wouldn't that call into question appropriate timing for effects such as Torrential Tribute.  You must activate TT "when a monster is summoned" if I can activate a spell card after summoning my monster before my opponent can do anything wouldn't that prevent the "when"?

I don't believe you *can* activate a Spell Card, I was merely pontificating on that.  Sorry.

Hence the reason I don't like priority in the first place.  The best I can offer you is that it means more along the lines of "at the earliest possible moment", kinda like the word "immediately" on "Spirit Reaper".  He doesn't get destroyed until the effect that targeted him fully resolves, so it's not really "immediate".

Here's wishing that Summons had a Spell Speed  :D  "Spell Speed Zero" sounds good to me! LOL
 
But "when" hasn't been "at the earliest possible moment". Peten and Mobius can't use their effect if they can't activate "when". So we have some in place rules that "when" must be "when". I find it almost impossible to believe I could use my priority "after" summoning a monster to the field to then play a spell card. That seems absolutely wrong. We truly need this "Priority Essay from Kevin".
 
This chain is not mine... originally posted by helpoemer316

djp952 said:
The sample chain posted by seidel is indeed illegal.  "Torrential Tribute" will resolve, destroying all monsters on the field before priority shifts back to player A.  Neither "Catapult Turtle" nor "Giant Orc" are on the field anymore.
 
Yes, agree with your concepts... but not with your examples, is necessary re-write the examples

helpoemer316 said:
I discussed it with Seidle on MSN, the conclusion we came across was that he agreed with me and just wants me to re-write everything to explain it easier.

I'm doing that sometime later this week, no worries Mike, you don't have to go all drawn out with another explanation, lol.
 
Something I've been thinking about today that goes a bit hand and hand with priority, and that would be the "state" of what is going on. Loosely put so far (because I would really need to sit down and look at all the different possibilities which is hard without the full "priority" issue), the "state" would be determined by the last action that resolved and this is what's used to determine if an effect can be activated. For example, if a monster has been successfully summoned, that would mean the current state is "Successful Summoned Monster" (I know, seems obvious). This would allow cards like "Trap Hole" or "Bottomless Trap Hole" or "Torrential Tribute" to be activated.

Another situation would be if a monster declares an attack (setting the state to "declared attack"). This is what allows "Magic Cylinder" to be activated and then possibly chained with "Draining Shield" because the state hasn't changed between the activation of the trap cards.

1 important thing is that the "state" can change but not be negated. 1 easy example of this is the resolution of "Waboku". Once that trap is activated and resolved, that player's state is "take no battle damage" for the rest of the turn, even if Jinzo is brought to the field afterwards. The same is true with "Last Will" or "Final Countdown" (if it resolves, the state stays until the conditions are met and can't be negated or reset otherwise).

Like I said, it's just something I've begun to look at and it's hard to mention without getting into priority. But I do believe that once the details are worked out, it can further help explain why certain activations and chains work. More details to hopefully come soon as the linguistics and situations are resolved.

- Andrew
 
Dlanaan said:
helpoemer316 said:
In this case with Giant Orc being summoned and Torrential Tribute being activated in response. The player who summoned Giant Orc would have the option to activate any effect that they have at their disposal before the resolution part of the chain. In this case, the player would be allowed to sacrifice Giant Orc to Catapult Turtle and deal 1100 points of damage to their opponent, than Torrential Tribute resolves destroying every monster on the field.

Actually, the last I heard, this is not possible. You are not allowed to activate an effect that does not come from the monster you just summoned (at least from what I have read/heard before... still waiting on that priority essay). So if you were to summon Giant Orc, you would not be able to activate Catapult Turtle's effect immediately. Your opponent would get the first chance to respond to an effect since Giant Orc itself has no effects to activate. This is similar to not being allowed to activate Torrential Tribute yourself before giving your opponent a chance to respond to your summon first.

Now, this is again based solely what I have read/heard and there are still a lot of conflicting ideas going on about priority. This may be incorrect and I realize it seems illogical, but sometimes in this game that is the way it works.

The turn player may either start the chain with the summoned monster's effect, or a spell speed 2 card, AS LONG AS there are no triggered effects waiting to be put on the chain.

Deathjester said:
helpoemer316 said:
Explanation: Breaker's effect is very tricky and some people don't understand how it's tricky. Breaker basically almost has two effects. The first is the addition of the counter, without this counter you cannot activate the secondary effect, so it's essential. The face up effect of Breaker as soon as it's summoned is the addition of the counter, not it's "breaking" effect itself. So the only priority you have when an opponent responds to the summon of your Breaker is whether or not to add the counter or not. By the time you would have the ability or opportunity to remove that counter, Breaker would no longer be on the field due to the responded trap card. Many confuse this card as a card that would have the ability to use your prioity with and use the effect, but you can't.

One little mistake in that. If, say, Ring of Destruction is activated on Breaker after it's summoned, the damage will be 1600 since the placing of the counter has not resolved. If I'm not mistaken, whenever you have priority to use a card effect, it's because the effect is optional. Since the placing of the counter on Breaker is automatic rather than optional, you don't have priority to place it before the opponent resolves an effect.

Triggered effects, such as Breaker's, always go on the chain first. That just one reason that Breaker can't utilize priority.

You can also stop both players from using summon priority with Stumble, as Stumble's effect, being a triggered effect, must go on the chain first. And you can't chain Cannon Soldier to a triggered effect, or at all.
 
Unfortunately, I do not think that that is correct (or as cut and dry) as being able to activate a Speed 2 effect upon your summon of a monster. Based on the following post:

There's more on this down the pipeline, but to answer your immediate question,
you can activate "Raigeki Break" and destroy "Sinister Serpent" before your
opponent can activate "Metamorphosis".

Kevin Tewart
Game Developer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment


> Convulsion of Nature is active and my opponent has no hand. I see that he
> draws Matamorphosis. Then I see him reach into his Graveyard to retrieve >
Sinister
> Serpent, so I know immediately that he's going Special Summon Thousand Eyes
> Restrict.
>
> He sets Sinister Serpent
>
> I have a face-down Raigeki Break and I want to hit Sinister Serpent as soon
> as its set. However, my opponent wants to activate Metamorphosis the moment
> Sinister Serpent is set.
>
> Who has "priority" (in the most general sense of the word) to activate their
> card first? If he were to have Summoned the Serpent, I know I would have the
> right to respond first (based on cards such as Torrential Tribute being of the

> same Speed as Raigeki Break).

> But does setting work differently and is NOT something that I have the right
> to immediately respond to before he activates a Normal Spell?

There is also the issue that was posted about Snatch Steal taking an opponent's monster and resolving with *your opponent* being allowed to do something first (which I don't agree with, but is currently canon.)
 
Oh, that's because of speed 2 cards. I said you can activate a speed 2 card first in the response chain, being the turn player. But you can't start a reponse chain with a speed 1 effect, except for the famous "the card I just played" exception. In both of those situations, the player tried to skip the response chain and go to a regular chain (i.e. no "last event" to respond to).
 
The issues boil down to this.

I summon/set something. This has no speed setting (or "Speed 0").
Assuming an automatic effect does not activate, I have the right to activate an effect of a monster on my side of the field.
Regardless if I do or do not, my opponent has the right to respond to the initial summon/set.

If an automatic effect does activate and it is not a continuous monster effect, my opponent can chain to the activation of that effect.

If an automatic effect does activate and it is a continuous monster effect, that must resolve first and my opponent cannot chain to that effect (this is the ruling as to why you can't "Trap Hole"/"Bottomless Trap Hole" Jinzo since his effect is automatic and it is a continuous effect so you can't chain to it and by the time you could activate the traps, they are negated.)

If I looked at this as a "State" issue as well... the state hasn't changed at any point up there... it's still "Monster Successfully Summoned".

The act of activating a spell or trap card that's not related to the current state by the turn player (like in the other example of activating "Metamorphosis") will allow the opponent to say he/she would like to respond and activate a Spell Speed 2/3 effect (be it a trap, quick spell, or multi-trigger effect).

(For the record, this is beginning to feel like a "Bottomless Trap Hole and I'm the "Lava Golem" that was just brought to the field :wink:)

- Andrew
 
densetsu_x said:
If an automatic effect does activate and it is not a continuous monster effect, my opponent can chain to the activation of that effect.

If an automatic effect does activate and it is a continuous monster effect, that must resolve first and my opponent cannot chain to that effect (this is the ruling as to why you can't "Trap Hole"/"Bottomless Trap Hole" Jinzo since his effect is automatic and it is a continuous effect so you can't chain to it and by the time you could activate the traps, they are negated.)

Triggered effect. You can only chain to triggered, multi-trigger, and cost effects. And spell/trap card plays. Continuous effects don't go on the chain.
 
I was thinking of "Stumbling" in mind. Wouldn't it be possible to chain "Torrential Tribute" to "Stumbling" reactivating when the monster is summoned?

If not... I'll make a note of it and file it away.

- A
 
this question is off subject but it is on priority! O.k

I know some of the mods have responded to my question on dmoc but I came here too, just in case there was an objection.

o.k, if I summon through tribute or special the Dark Magician of Chaos and they activate the traps either ring of destruction and or bottomless trap hole. I do receive my magic card right? I'm guessing this question is still on topic for priority.

-Javario
 
Javario said:
this question is off subject but it is on priority! O.k

I know some of the mods have responded to my question on dmoc but I came here too, just in case there was an objection.

o.k, if I summon through tribute or special the Dark Magician of Chaos and they activate the traps either ring of destruction and or bottomless trap hole. I do receive my magic card right? I'm guessing this question is still on topic for priority.

-Javario

Last I heard, yes you would get your spell card, I wouldn't understand why not, but I tend to go by what I read and here and don't worry too often about how it's completely explained as long as I get the full jist of it.
 
densetsu_x said:
I was thinking of "Stumbling" in mind. Wouldn't it be possible to chain "Torrential Tribute" to "Stumbling" reactivating when the monster is summoned?

If not... I'll make a note of it and file it away.

- A

Yeah, you can chain it. It's a speed 2 chaining to a speed 1 (triggered).

helpoemer316 said:
Javario said:
this question is off subject but it is on priority! O.k

I know some of the mods have responded to my question on dmoc but I came here too, just in case there was an objection.

o.k, if I summon through tribute or special the Dark Magician of Chaos and they activate the traps either ring of destruction and or bottomless trap hole. I do receive my magic card right? I'm guessing this question is still on topic for priority.

-Javario

Last I heard, yes you would get your spell card, I wouldn't understand why not, but I tend to go by what I read and here and don't worry too often about how it's completely explained as long as I get the full jist of it.

Note that DMoC goes on chain first, being a triggered effect. Your opponent must chain their Ring/Trap Hole to DMoC's effect.
 
truly, all this stuff with priority has left me :? and for I know most people are just going with the priority basics, BUT what can we do if everything changes, I don`t know which rules to follow, because at any moment it could change. Is it true that you can activate whatever effect is on the field for priority or just the monster that has been summoned the last can activate his effect. Try to clear the priority rules A.S.A.P please, to spread the new rules. Thanks :D
 
I don't anticipate any changes to the current rules basis of priority as the game is currently played the same in Japan in that respect, the only reason changes have happened in the past was to make it the same as the game in Japan.

As far as the issue with any card priority, etc. I'm still sticking with my answer as I've got plenty of people who agree with me, but that may be something that won't be cleared up until Kevin Tewart gets to his own priority essay, but I can bet you this, netrep may have a jump on UDE once again with their own essay after I re-write this.
 
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