Alternative Reviews: Card Advantage II

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Jason_C

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Alright, it's time for our second look into card advantage. This time, we have a new strategy: The Defensive Norm. Ooh... Fun. Ok, how about an overview of the cards involved? Well, if you insist:
Dark Factory of Mass Production
Backup Soldier
Heart of the Underdog
Back to Square One
Phoenix Wing Wind Blast
Card Destruction
Robbin' Goblin
Cross Counter
Battle Footballer
Giant Soldier of Stone
Soul Tiger
Charcoal Inpachi

Now, I'm sure you can already see where this is going. But to get the full effect, we'll take them one at a time.
Dark Factory of Mass Production: Two-for-one. As simple as that. This is the normal monsters Salvage, and will basically give you a free discard. Think of it like this: Dark factory is a card that can be thought of as a monster, and a discard together. That way, you can play one monster, and discard the other (to be brought back again later).
Backup Soldier: Even better, it's a three-for-one. Let's move on.
Heart of the Underdog: Not as good as it sounds, but still quite useful. I wouldn't use more than two of these in a deck without Magic Reflector. You'd be surprised how often it can get shot down without helping much.
Back to Square One: Essential. You get a two-for-two trade - lose two cards from your hand, opponent loses one monster on the field and their next draw. It becomes a two-for-one if you use Dark Factory of Mass Production, and two-for-nothing if Backup Soldier. Wonderful.
Phoenix Wing Wind Blast: Ditto
Card Destruction: With so many cards returning from the grave, you have to GET some in the grave first. This is probably necessary for the deck to function properly. Even if you don't draw it early on, you can still load up your hand with norms, then play this card, and get a whole new hand.
Robbin' Goblin: With all the defense monsters you have, your opponent will probably run into a wall more than once. Letting them hit your monster, playing Robbin' Goblin, then phoenixing / square oneing their monster will leave them topdecking, and topdecking JUNK at that.
Cross Counter: If this isn't obvious, you need to seek professional help. Moving on...
Defense Monsters: What holds it all together. You might want to try making an earth theme, taking advantage of Spiritual Earth Art - Kurogane with giant soldier, Inpachi, Charcoal Inpachi, and Soul Tiger. Or, you might try to stick with the sturdiest you can find. Whatever fits your playing style, just remember that having more card than your opponent doesn't necessarily mean drawing cards. It can also mean taking full advantage of the cards you've already drawn.
Next we'll start alternative stalling.

-pssvr
 
Probably just about as often as I'm going to risk swinging at your Def position monsters while Robbin' Goblin is active. Which is why you don't see many DEF only decks winning at regionals. Throw a Guardian Sphinx or two into the mix and punish them for hesitating.

We are talking about alternative strategies here right? The reason they are mostly alternative is probably not due to them never being thought up before. It is because they have some drawbacks that you have to contend with. You don't see many Normal Monsters in the tournament scene for what reason? Because they don't have anything extra to bring to the table. That is the very reason why Jinzo will always be superior to Royal Decree, Jinzo combines trap stopping with 2400 ATK to pound the damage home. You can run support cards that they can benefit from such as Dark Factory of Mass Production and Heart of the Underdog, Non-Spellcasting Area, Skill Drain, but the bottom line is you are adding externally to support an internal weakness of the monster. Blue Eyes White Dragon can kick serious butt in a deck with Non-Spellcasting Area, King Dragun and Royal Decree, but you can do the same thing better with Horus Lv8, King Dragun and Royal Decree.
 
anthonyj said:
Probably just about as often as I'm going to risk swinging at your Def position monsters while Robbin' Goblin is active. Which is why you don't see many DEF only decks winning at regionals. Throw a Guardian Sphinx or two into the mix and punish them for hesitating.

We are talking about alternative strategies here right? The reason they are mostly alternative is probably not due to them never being thought up before. It is because they have some drawbacks that you have to contend with. You don't see many Normal Monsters in the tournament scene for what reason? Because they don't have anything extra to bring to the table. That is the very reason why Jinzo will always be superior to Royal Decree, Jinzo combines trap stopping with 2400 ATK to pound the damage home. You can run support cards that they can benefit from such as Dark Factory of Mass Production and Heart of the Underdog, Non-Spellcasting Area, Skill Drain, but the bottom line is you are adding externally to support an internal weakness of the monster. Blue Eyes White Dragon can kick serious butt in a deck with Non-Spellcasting Area, King Dragun and Royal Decree, but you can do the same thing better with Horus Lv8, King Dragun and Royal Decree.
Click to expand...
Internal Flaws? All cards have flaws. Dueling is not about finding good cards, it's about finding cards that cover for each other's weaknesses. Synergy? And you have PROFOUNDLY missed the point of this article. I am not talking about building a deck based on masking the weaknesses of normal monsters. I am talking about building a deck based on using normal monsters to nullify the weaknesses of otherwise incredible cards, i.e. Back to Square One and Phoenix Wing Wind Blast. Using Blue-eyes with Royal Decree and King Dragun was not even close to what I was saying. Using blue-eyes with cards that actually have synergy with him is more what I was going for. If your going to say this is a horrible article and I shouldn't make any more, go ahead. But DON'T tell me my idea is dumb, and then try to prove it by using a totally unrelated idea.

-pssvr
 
Actually I was suggesting that you could also use the 3 cards I mentioned to support what you were putting forth in the article. You were the one that attacked my suggestion. Thus I defended the point I was making. The article is fine but learn to take suggestions without immediately dismissing them because you weren't thinking in that direction. I was giving you examples of why what you are writing about is defined as alternative category instead of primary meta that everyone is already doing. You'd think that if you are going to write about something other than the old Cookie Cutter strategies you could take suggestions without shooting them down as "not worthy of using". I can give you a dozen reasons why using the Blue Eyes instead of the Horus LV8 makes more sense in the right conditions. Just attempting to make sure you see everything has a down side. Everything can be criticized. Don't jump to shoot down other suggestions so fast.
 
Personally I ADORE seeing alternative theory and practice ideas and I'm pushing to get a new area of the City devoted to it. Kudos to pssvr for attempting what most fail to do and putting their unconvential ideas and thoughts out for others.

That being said, as anthonyj has suggested, that's part of the reason that many don't put their alternative ideas and suggestions out here for review is that anyone who does risks constructive criticism which can easly (especially in type where facial expressions and tone of voice can't be seen and heard) be mistaken for ridicule.

A mark of confidence is putting yourself out on the line for all to see. A mark of maturity is being able to take how others see you, your ideas, and who and what you are and use their feedback to improve.

I encourage all to discuss thier alternative playing ideas and strategies, be prepared, however, to get back others thoughts on yours as well.

On the subject of high def. monsters and Roblin Goblin. I play a Shield & Sword machine deck that uses the very theory you're both talking about. It's obviously toned down a bit since Limiter Removal was brought down to 1 copy but Robin Goblin was effective in it as well. After the first duel when they'd been bitten a few times attacking Gear Golem the Moving Fortress after sacrificing for Airknight Parshath and LOSING a card out of their hand as well as taking lp damage (I DO so love the look on their faces when that happens!) they are indeed hesitant the next duel I side deck in Guardian Sphinx or two and a couple of Swarm of Scarabs. Now it's a guessing game. I've been thinking of adding one of the cards that lets me shuffle my face down monsters to that, there is the Mummy monster and the trap card that let me do so for a cost of 300lp (can't think of their names off the top of my head)
 
I know perfectly well how to take suggestions. But to say my ideas are less effective than cookie cutter, and then to proceed to prove that by proving that YOUR idea is less effective than cookie cutter makes no sense. Do you get that? See, your idea was to use blue-eyes with Skill Drain and decree, and then you proved how that didn't work well. But you did not even come close to backing up your statement that MY idea doesn't work well.

As I said, you are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to say something and then have absolutely nothing to back it up.

-pssvr
 
Thankyou for the kind words. But do you see that he is not critiquing (sp?) my article, he is using unrelated facts to prove a related point?

-pssvr
 
We're all entitled to our opinions and we will NOT turn this into a personal debate regarding who's suggestions and ideas are valid or not. Anymore such finger pointing or personal comments will cause this thread to be locked.
 
John Danker said:
Personally I ADORE seeing alternative theory and practice ideas and I'm pushing to get a new area of the City devoted to it. Kudos to pssvr for attempting what most fail to do and putting their unconvential ideas and thoughts out for others.

That being said, as anthonyj has suggested, that's part of the reason that many don't put their alternative ideas and suggestions out here for review is that anyone who does risks constructive criticism which can easly (especially in type where facial expressions and tone of voice can't be seen and heard) be mistaken for ridicule.

A mark of confidence is putting yourself out on the line for all to see. A mark of maturity is being able to take how others see you, your ideas, and who and what you are and use their feedback to improve.

I encourage all to discuss thier alternative playing ideas and strategies, be prepared, however, to get back others thoughts on yours as well.
Click to expand...

*nods* Happily enough, (almost?) everyone tends to keep it 'fair and square' on this forum. I am/have been member of some other forums, and little example: when I posted a Deck, and it looked like a Structure Deck (often they weren't... well... some were upgraded and modified...), they said: what a noob-Deck.

So they didn't look at the Deck itself.

Happily enough here, everyone who wants takes a look at the Deck, and when they see something that can be improved, they give (good, sometimes less some more 'expensive') advises for cards that can be in a Deck.

I guess the fact that many don't put down here, are because they have the idea of some other kind of forums....

'Welcome everybody on City of Gamers Online, for the 'family'-feeling.'
 
I apologize if anything I said was offensive to you. I certainly was only attempting to provide feedback with some additional possibilities to bolster the suggested direction. And may have gone off on an unintended tangent while explaining the thought process that was unnecessary. I'll be happy to delete the post.
 
Offensive? I can take offense. I can take flaming. I've been on forums where people every day tell you things I cannot repeat here. That is not what I'm angry about. It's that you didn't JUSTIFY what you said. Like benjamin pointed out with people who called his deck "a n00b-deck" without even realizing that it was a slightly modified structure deck. You simply told me my idea was bad, and other cards were better. Not WHY.

-pssvr
 
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