Basic Priority Questions

[carlossilva]

... or they should be, but while browsing through several forums I've often read contradictory answers ( whether direct or implied ) so I've decided to place them here.

1. After the turn player draws a card in his/her draw phase, who has priority to activate a quickplay spell or trap card?

2. After an attack is declared by the turn player, who has priority to activate a card in response to the attack ?

3. After a chain has completely resolved, who has priority to respond to the end of the chain? ( I've read it's the turn player, I've read it's the opponent of the controller of the last effect to resolve - this last one actually came from UDE ... )

Thanks

Carlos

 

[John Danker]

If you're referring to this quote...

I, as the turn player, can declare an attack on my opponent's Magician of Faith with my Don Zaloog, activate Rush Recklessly to increase Don Zaloog's attack, since I am still allowed to activate an effect first, and my opponent can now only chain Sakuretsu Armor to Rush Recklessly?

Then yes we have been "playing it" this way for eons.

 

[Jason_C]

http://www.cogonline.net/showpost.php?p=110089&postcount=71

Alright, I admit that isn't as conclusive as I remembered it. But if I'm understanding this all right, it is an example of you telling me you've never played it the way Dan has just said it's played. But then, I may be more clueless than I think...

<EDIT: Nevermind. I suddenly realized they're two different points of agrument.>

 

[John Danker]

What I'm wondering here regarding the attack concerning pirority though is if I've been seeing it completely incorrectly.

We know that priority is passed back and forth. We know that turn player has priority at the beginning of any given phase.

We know that in the battle phase during the Start Step turn player has priority to begin a chain.

We know that during the Battle Step the first thing to happen is the declaration of attack.....BUT...is not a declaration of attack an action? Does priority not pass after an action? (as far as we know with the one exception being a summon)

Judging from the paragraph above once I've declared my attack priority should be passed to non-turn player, if non-turn player does not respond it should pass back to turn player...if both pass on the empty chain the then we proceed to damage calculation.

Yes yes...I know I'm doing a 180 here...but that doesn't bother me, what would bother me is not digging for what is the correct way.

 

[skey23]

And I can understand that side as well. Because you still end up with both players having the ability to respond to the attack, and if both pass on the response, then they've aGreed to move into the Damage Step.

 

[Dillie-O]

Hmm, now see the way you explained it there is the way I've always played it. You go to the battle phase and declare an attack. At that point, your opponent has the chance to respond to the declaration of the attack and if not, you can activate any spell/traps you'd like before going into the damage calculation point.

The problem I think might be when people try to get too granular with priority and things. By that token, then I, the turn player, have the right to enter things into my calculator to change the score and my opponent can respond accordingly 8^D

 

[John Danker]

The problem I think might be when people try to get too granular with priority and things. By that token, then I, the turn player, have the right to enter things into my calculator to change the score and my opponent can respond accordingly 8^D

Too granular? I take it you mean into too much fine detail? As far as I'm concerned I can't afford NOT to get into as much detail as possible as a judge.

As for the right to enter things into your calculator....yes, as turn player you have priority to do that...but don't forget that I can chain to your button pushing and since it resolves in reverse I'll win the game in my calculator and win between steps of the chain....unless of course we're in end of match proceedures when things change and the chain must resolve fully before checking the score <smirk>

 

[Jason_C]

We know that during the Battle Step the first thing to happen is the declaration of attack.....BUT...is not a declaration of attack an action? Does priority not pass after an action? (as far as we know with the one exception being a summon)

It is indeed an action. It is a non-chainable event. And priority lost only one of two ways:

1. Activating an effect THAT USES THE CHAIN.

2. Passing it.

Summons, attack declarations, and manual battle position changes are all non-chainable events. Whoever had priority before them will retain it afterwards.

 

[skey23]

I guess the biggest thing for me would be what exactly does Priority give the Turn Player?

Does it give the Turn Player the right to act first?
If so, what actions does it include?
Drawing?
Summoning?
Attacking?

Does it give the Turn Player the right to respond first?
If so, what am I allowed to respond to?
Drawing?
Summoning?
Attacking?
End of a chain?
Manual Battle Position Changes?

What am I allowed to respond with?
Spell Speed 1, 2, or 3?
Monster or Spell/Trap?

These are just a few questions...lol.

 

[Dillie-O]

Too granular? I take it you mean into too much fine detail? As far as I'm concerned I can't afford NOT to get into as much detail as possible as a judge.

Most definitely! I agree with that and it helps people learn how to resolve chains properly. Heck, breaking things down to activation and resolution of a given card takes a bit of work to get a hang of at first. I guess I just don't want to see people using that break down in places where it doesn't belong, at least not yet 8^D

...hmm, you may chain with your calculator pushing, but I can always chain my counter trap called "Fat Finger of Doom" and you would enter the wrong numbers in your calculator, which would give you the wrong totals and I'll win 8^D

 

[Jason_C]

Does it give the Turn Player the right to act first?

Absotively.

If so, what actions does it include?
Drawing?
Summoning?
Attacking?

It includes all actions. You wouldn't summon a monster if you DIDN'T have priority, would you? No, that isn't possible.

Does it give the Turn Player the right to respond first?

If there is something to respond to, absotuley.

Drawing?
Summoning?
Attacking?
End of a chain?
Manual Battle Position Changes?

All of the above. Anything that can be responded to can and can ONLY be responded to when you have priority. Baspolutely.

What am I allowed to respond with?
Spell Speed 1, 2, or 3?
Monster or Spell/Trap?

As you and novastar explained to me, response windows generally only allow for Spell Speed 2 and higher, of any card type. The exception being the response window to a summon, which allows for ignition effects, oddly enough.

Lutesaboy.

 

[skey23]

Jason, all of your answers are based off what we've been piecing together for quite a while now. Since we haven't been given any kind of 'official' answer, everything you said could end up being wrong...lol.

 

[Jason_C]

Jason, all of your answers are based off what we've been piecing together for quite a while now. Since we haven't been given any kind of 'official' answer, everything you said could end up being wrong...lol.

Everything I've ever said since the day I was born could conceivably be wrong. However, I doubt that it is.

You do AGREE with the answers, don't you?

 

[John Danker]

According to Dan's post turn player still maintains priority after the declaration of attack as stated below.....


Battle Phase starts.

Start Step

Player A activates an effect or passes.

Player B activates an effect or passes.

Battle Step

Player A picks an attacker and an attack target.

Player A activates an effect or passes.

Player B activates an effect or passes.

Damage Step

------------------------------------

You folks are just going to have to forgive me here as I think out loud in this thread, post to the L3 judge's list, reason out, and do my best to coherse the powers that be into defining this publickly for us.

If feel a bit sorry for anyone who's just clicked on this thread for the first time today and is trying to follow along and catch up! <laffin>

I can tell you right now that there are differences in how even the L3's have defined priority in their own minds and are ruling it. If we don't even have it straight between us then it's no wonder the general playing public doesn't either. I'm working hard to rectify that in the last couple of days and vow to continue to do so over the next couple of weeks / months....patience please...and as well a favor, don't be too harsh on me as I throw out tidbits and pieces in this thread? I'm thinking out loud, relating info., bouncing it off of you folks....all in an attempt to put some sanity into the subject matter. I hope you'll see fit to allow me some errors and leeway on this paticular subject for the time being.

 

[skey23]

Everything I've ever said since the day I was born could conceivably be wrong. However, I doubt that it is.

You do AGREE with the answers, don't you?

I agree with all of your answers, but I still put them into question.

I also agree with this:

It is indeed an action. It is a non-chainable event. And priority lost only one of two ways:

1. Activating an effect THAT USES THE CHAIN.

2. Passing it.

Summons, attack declarations, and manual battle position changes are all non-chainable events. Whoever had priority before them will retain it afterwards.

But it could still prove to be completely incorrect...lol

 

[Jason_C]

You folks are just going to have to forgive me here as I think out loud in this thread, post to the L3 judge's list, reason out, and do my best to coherse the powers that be into defining this publickly for us

What's to forgive you for? We're all trying to learn just as much as you are. I just have a tendency to put my questions into statement form when I shouldn't. That doesn't mean I know everything, I think I know everything, or anything of that sort. I'm thinking out loud as much as you, there's nothing wrong with that.

But it could still prove to be completely incorrect...lol

Sure it could. But I feel even MORE doubtful that it will if you are on my side.

 

[John Danker]

Now now...this isn't about "sides"...or at least it shouldn't be. It's about finding out the rules and understanding the Reasoning behind them to make us all better players and judges and to make the game itself a success regardless of who's thought pattern is right or wrong.

Tell me that's what this is about...please?

 

[Jason_C]

Tell me that's what this is about...please?

Alright. *laughs* Yes, that's what this is about. But we ARE debating, and there ARE sides to a debate. Not like there are sides to a fight; it's completely different from that. I'm just saying I feel more confident in my Reasoning when Skey agrees with me.

 

[John Danker]

Okay...well do me a favor will you? Don't put me on the roster for either "side"....I'm the referee, impartial, just trying to get the right call, reviewing the replay, throwing the flag, having people spit on me for making the wrong call...but in the end just trying to keep order and fairness.

 

[Jason_C]

Don't put me on the roster for either "side"....

Alright, I won't.

but in the end just trying to keep order and fairness.

Ehh... Alright... But I'm all for the order and fairness... I believe Mr. Salladay once said, "You can get mildly up in someone's face and disagree with them without flaming." I'm just arguing my point, not waging war. I save the war for when I'm on the Neopets forums.

having people spit on me for making the wrong call

Yeah, I get that a lot

 

[Raijinili]

My apologies. I was in a rush to type that last reply, and didn't think about what I was saying. I will attempt to restate my original point WAY back in the "Enemy Controller Question".

The non-responsive window exists only when it is necessary. There are two times when it might be necessary:

1. During the Main Phase, after the end of the response window to a summon. This is because only certain cards may be activated in response to a summon, but any cards can be activated in the main phase. So after players pass in response to a summon, they haven't really passed in the main phase. Hence we enter a non-responsive window. If they pass THEN, then we continue to Battle Phase.

2. During ANY phase, after any window has closed, PROVIDED SOMETHING WAS ACTIVATED IN THAT WINDOW.

That's what I meant to say all along. Are we on the same page?

Untrue. Spirit Ryu, Sinister Serpent, and Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV4, for three, are Ignition effects that cannot activate if there is a Last Event to consider.