bottomless trap hole vs crystal beasts

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rickfx1996

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i understand that when a crystal beast is destroyed the controller can decide to put it in his/her spell and trap zone instead of sending it to the graveyard and they choose this at the time the crystal beast would be sent to the graveyard. when bottomless trap hole is activated. does the controller of the crystal beast(s) still have the option of sending to the graveyard? I think not because of the wording on bottomless trap hole " When your opponent Normal Summons, Flip Summons, or Special Summons a monster(s) with an ATK of 1500 or more, destroy and remove from play the monster(s)." but just wanted to check with ya'll thanks
 
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rickfx1996 said:
i understand that when a crystal beast is destroyed the controller can decide to put it in his/her spell and trap zone instead of sending it to the graveyard and they choose this at the time the crystal beast would be sent to the graveyard. when bottomless trap hole is activated. does the controller of the crystal beast(s) still have the option of sending to the graveyard? I think not because of the wording on bottomless trap hole " When your opponent Normal Summons, Flip Summons, or Special Summons a monster(s) with an ATK of 1500 or more, destroy and remove from play the monster(s)." but just wanted to check with ya'll thanks
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The ruling for the crystal beasts monsters state
"You choose whether or not to use the ability at the time the monster is destroyed and would be sent to the graveyard"
Since Bottomless Traphole is destroying AND removing the monster from play and not sending to the graveyard, the controller of the crystal beast monster cannot move the card to the S/T zone when it is destroyed.
 
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is there a ruling to back that up? i dont think it is a graveyard effect at all - it is just a timing reference for the effect - so destroy & remove would be the same timing as destroy and send to gy...it would never actually go to either place - i think... since if your opponent has control of one of your crystal beasts - he can (when destroyed) put it in his spell/trap zone - which could not happen if it went back to your gy first...i'm curious now....i was under the impression that , if they do go to gy - you miss the timing to activate effect, and they stay in gy...
 
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It's a subtle difference.

Bottomless Trap Hole says destroy and remove from play. It won't hit the Graveyard. It was never headed towards the Graveyard. Therefore you can't move it to the S/T zone instead. (This is the ruling in Japan for what it's worth even though not all the rulings match. From a logical sense though, it fits).

Now say there's a card like Macro Cosmos or Banisher of the Radiance on the field. When a Crystal Beast is destroyed in this case you CAN put it in the S/T zone. Why? Because unlike the Bottomless Trap Hole scenario, the Crystal Beast would be going to the Graveyard (as all things go when they are normally destroyed). So in this instance you have the choice. Now, if you decide to let it go to the Graveyard, it would be Removed from Play instead because of the other active effect (which redirects the cards from the GY to RFP instead). (This too is the Japan ruling. See disclaimer above).
 
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If a card that destroys a Monster through effect or by battle says "remove it from play", it essentially replaces the mechanic of sending the Monster to the graveyard with removing from the game instead.

DMoC states that it removes a Monster INSTEAD of it going to the graveyard. Therefore, it's just like Bottemless Trap Hole in that regard.

With Macro Cosmos, the card is trying to go to the graveyard, but when it gets there, it gets diverted to the out of play pile instead.
 
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