Broken VS. Not Broken

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krazykidpsx

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What is the difference.

We here on COG (most of us) search around the world wide web and end up finding spoilers for card from next sets.

Some of us may see and think, "hmm, new card, new effect" Some others, "OMG THAT IS SO BROKEN, ITS GONNA GET BANNED OR RESTRICTED"

now, its true what one player belives to be broken another just doesnt. so today we will start to differentiate the differences between what is considered broken and what isnt.

Now we all seen the 3 new high light cards from SOI, and while some argue that they are devine or what ever they arnt.

so this is how we will explain how it works all out.

first we all know the soldier and the dragon were the true gods of broken (monster wise, not spell/trap) and even their little sibling chaos sorcerer can be a meanace to society.

now lets put these beasts against each other.

first contender, Mr. Spell/Trap destroyer vs. the soldier.

okay you were lucky enough to summon your beast, but a threatening roar stoped you from attack. This is odd you say, Threatening roar.

well lets continue on, First off you probably gave up a royal decree and 2 gravity binds to play this, so traps are now accesable and with 3 traps on the opponents field you were bound to get the one that didnt destroy your creature.

well your in luck, you opponent just top decked a soldier and to be funny the remove 1 light and 1 dark.

now here we stand and say "hey its a ?? attacker vs. a 3k attack whats the deal Krazykid???, Your krazy man, you dont know what your talking about" well.

now here comes mr. soldiers dirty dirty effect, " I would like to remove that ?? attacker from the field please... Thank you dont forget to write from RFP."

notice the shear devine brokeness of the soldier vs. one of these beast.

now you say, well the spell trap one was the weakest, okay, lets put the others in the situation only this time, the one that requires 3 continous spells dies through a bottomless trap hole and the monster one, well he met the same fate.

in the end neither ended up facing the soldier.


now, while the soldier still fall victom through bottomless, it also gives you a chance to summon or special summon yet another monster.

1 dies 1 more comes to life.

Ancient Gear Golem, now if we talk about effects, monsters just outragously have effects with no costs or little effort.

AGG is one of the best well rounded cards in the game. Double Tribute, 3k Attack 3k Defense. But does it see enough play becuase its a 3k Atk and Def. nope, it doesnt, so lets see what would make it come to play. "Hmmm its effect says, that when it battles, the opponent cannot activate spell and traps till after it beats up a monster.

okay no problem.

no biggy, its not gonna hurt much, What?!? you say he also does piercing damage if my monster is in defense, okay its not that much of a biggy.

OO, so it also cant be special summoned either?

well then i wont play it because it cant be special summoned"

why would somebody not play it? its effect is outragous, with a few axes and limiter remover, but since the card is balanced with the line "This card cannot be special summoned" people make it not appear in games.

now, what ever the real reason may be for people not to play this card, it doesnt justify why a cyber dragon sees more play than this.

you can create any deck for a specific high light monster, this includes the dragon, the soldier, and even yata, because if you just tossed in a yata in any old deck that didnt fit its structure it down right was a horrible top deck.

really a 200 attacker that returns to your hand.

notice the reason why that card in perticular became broken was because of the combo that lead up to a no hand, no field situation.

how easy would it be now that we have no pot of greed?

well for starters, its not easy any more, its a bit more difficult, you basically have to make a deck around the bird in order to make it work, and when you pull it off, you probably would have won using another method instead of playing with just the bird.

while it was unfair upon relase of that card, if we all remember it was a Secrete rare in TCG but Common in OCG.

we come to understand why the deck was so expensive here in the TCG. now in the OCG it was much cheaper since it was easier to get.

not a biggy though, we all managed to pull the heck out of the bird and break alot of stuff.

so in the end we are here to understand that card effect are now becoming more well ballanced. Either by specifing a deck type or by giving it a "This card cannot be special summoned" type treatment. or by just outright making it "One way to summon only"

so next time around when you see a spoiler, make sure to analize the card text. remember in the end it might even get changed for the TCG the famous "Translation" type issues we constantly get.

Konami, is sure doing a good job of leaving the tracks of non cost effects, and bringing out Theme style decks.

heck, come this january, we will also hear people screaming about how broken cards like, Dimension Magic and Level Tuning are.
 
It's funny I play the 7 trials to Glory Gameboy game and in the shadow realm nothing is banned and nothing is limited and I still manage to build a deck, play, sometimes win, sometimes lose (mostly win) and I have as much or more fun playing the "banned cards" or "broken cards" as any of the others.

Really if everyone has them, it's pretty well fair. Simply who draws first. And we do like, show me now, in our society. We like Fast. Seems like all the powers at be want to do is slow things down.

In reality we know it's money driven. Un-ban a card release for resale. Oh what's that everyone has it, can't sell anymore. Ban that one and start again with another.

It's up to the consumer to not give in to the "MAN".

Be passionate about what you love or it may be taken from you.
 
well ude/konami makes no sales from singles. from products yea, but not singles.

so if somebody sells 50 BLS's non of that money goes to UDE or Konami.
 
LOL. "The man" selling cards for $50 to $200 or even higher amounts is not, and has never been UDE or Konami. The players and collectors are the ones who drive the cost up by 1) How much the card is wanted and 2) How hard it is to get the card. Sometimes the cost is more of a rarity issue, Anti-Raigeki still runs $35 - $50 when it goes on E-Bay even though hardly anybody used it even when Raigeki wasn't banned. And Royal Decree though seen in some decks at Nationals and higher was by no means a staple even though it was selling in the $100 + range.

Obviously Konami wants to have sought after cards in each release set so the sets will sell. It doesn't do much good to release unwanted cards (at least not without the occassional sought after card to make you wade through the garbage). The problem comes with the lack of forethought that printing and releasing a card should demand if you don't want the game teetering from one extreme to another.
 
Funny thing is, I didn't say they were MORE broken, or even AS broken as the chaos beasties. I only said that they are broken. Which you have not disproved.
-pssvr
 
the effects of said card can be broken once on the field, but that is the reward for doing the deed of summoning it out to the field.

now if we add the line "This card is unaffected by spells, traps, and monsters effects" Then we got a problem.
 
krazykidpsx said:
first contender, Mr. Spell/Trap destroyer vs. the soldier.

okay you were lucky enough to summon your beast, but a Threatening Roar stoped you from attack. This is odd you say, Threatening Roar.

well lets continue on, First off you probably gave up a Royal Decree and 2 Gravity Binds to play this, so traps are now accesable and with 3 traps on the opponents field you were bound to get the one that didnt destroy your creature.
So your logic is if the opponent has 3 set cards on the field BLS would somehow fair better than Uria? How on Earth do you get to that?

now here comes mr. soldiers dirty dirty effect, " I would like to remove that ?? attacker from the field please... Thank you dont forget to write from RFP."

notice the shear devine brokeness of the soldier vs. one of these beast.
So if the tables were turned and the Soldier had been summoned and removed the Spirit Reaper (couldn't attack anyway with that Gravity Bind on the field) that had bean defending your life points then it is my turn and I summon Uria who laughs at your puny Soldier and pops him like a grape. But at least Uria needs three face-up continuous traps it could be worse. A Hamon player can Giant Trunade, play 3 continuous spells, special summon a Cyber Dragon, normal summon a Mystic Swordsman LV2 (to deal with your set Cyber Jar), special summon Hamon and attack you with such ferocity you'd be wishing for BLS to come back.

now you say, well the spell trap one was the weakest, okay, lets put the others in the situation only this time, the one that requires 3 continous spells dies through a Bottomless Trap Hole and the monster one, well he met the same fate.
Where did your Bottomless Trap Hole go? Oh yeah back to your hand so it couldn't do anything to Hamon or all his buddies. :)


now, while the soldier still fall victom through bottomless, it also gives you a chance to summon or special summon yet another monster.
Again how is this any different than the new 3? They are all Special Summon monsters. They are stronger than the Envoys, can use a lot of the same support and the fact that they are nomi is the only hindrance they have.

Ancient Gear Golem, now if we talk about effects, monsters just outragously have effects with no costs or little effort.

AGG is one of the best well rounded cards in the game. Double Tribute, 3k Attack 3k Defense. But does it see enough play becuase its a 3k Atk and Def. nope, it doesnt, so lets see what would make it come to play. "Hmmm its effect says, that when it battles, the opponent cannot activate spell and traps till after it beats up a monster.

okay no problem.

no biggy, its not gonna hurt much, What?!? you say he also does piercing damage if my monster is in defense, okay its not that much of a biggy.

OO, so it also cant be special summoned either?

well then i wont play it because it cant be special summoned"

why would somebody not play it? its effect is outragous, with a few axes and limiter remover, but since the card is balanced with the line "This card cannot be special summoned" people make it not appear in games.

How can you say that? Horus LV8 is also Nomi but I seem to see him handing out some pretty decent whoopings. Ancient Gear Golem is a 2 trib that must come out by regular summon. What are your options for getting him out quick? Trojan Horse still takes 2 rounds or an Ultimate Offering and the stupid thing is unsearchable. Gilasaurus or Nimble Momonga, one will still take multiple rounds and the other will bring back something to defend your opponent. So isn't it easier to use that precious regular summon to put another monster on the field? Instead of replacing one for another? Ancient Gear Golem is depleting your own field advantage to come out.

so in the end we are here to understand that card effect are now becoming more well ballanced. Either by specifing a deck type or by giving it a "This card cannot be special summoned" type treatment. or by just outright making it "One way to summon only"
These safeguards to limit abuse have been with us for many sets now. Nomi is nothing new, neither is gearing cards to require a specific type of deck to be more useful. In fact other than the trinity most other cards are more beneficial to one type of deck than another. I applaud the main efforts that have been made by Konami to give powerful cards more of a cost to use but they still are apt to make mistakes and release cards that look competitive but wind up overshadowing and bending the meta to their weight and will. I personally believe these 3 will be among them and they will end up abused and eventually restricted, limited or even banned, only time will tell. Heck how long did we have Thousand Eyes Restrict before they wised up to how overly abusible it was?
 
it wasnt restrict that was abusive, its how it came out.

why do you think alot of the fusions say "This card cannot be special summoned except by fusion summon"

also, nobody said these 3 were going to be "Nomi", the text on the card is similar to BLS or Dark Necrofear.

your over thinking this sir, you really dont know.

also the reason why horus is so abuse now is because people finally can score their 3x decree.

will you sac 3x decree for 1 monster? really now.


These cards are theme specific, why dont you proxy it, make a deck around it and tell us how it is.

remember its in no way limited so you can proxy 3x of it. then tell us how it is.

seriously, i can over see the card, and its not broken in anyway.

also, how would you know which of the 3 would your opponent pick?

you would, id be a shot in the dark and getting one may lead to getting the wrong card.

you need decree... doesnt matter how you see it, if you want thouse demons safe and sound you need to back it up with some trap negation.

why do you think horus didnt show face while the soldier was around?

oo thats right Royal Decree was a TP super - Ultra.

no wonder it didnt do jack squat when it first made an appearance.
 
In reply to those thinking money is a none issue as to singles.

Am I the only one to notice the packaging of old cards with new ones?

For example un-ban Graceful Charity. Re-package it with booster packs and of course everyone wants it and goes to buy those packs.

If you think konami doesn't benefit from this form of marketing you are crazy.

They did the same thing with Ring of Destruction and many others.

While individuals selling cards or "singles" to quote another threader here, doesn't have an baring on my previous statement at all. Does no one else wonder why rather than coming up with new ideas they rename and resell in essence the same cards over and over again i.e. UFO Turtle, Giant Rat, Mystic Tomato.

All the same effect just different flavors.

Where has the uniqueness gone.

I say these things not to depress, but in the hope that someone may just, right the ship, as it were, for yugi-oh. Since, I do love the game. I do not want it to go away and fade as say Pokemon has. While it is still marketed, no one can argue that Pokemon is as large as it used to be.

While I admit for kids, they cannot possibly understand why big corporations do what they do, for the rest of us adults, we absolutely must recognize when we are being led around by our nose. That is, of course, if we want to make good decisions.

In regard to my "Man" comment. That was just an attempt at humor.:):):)

Please keep smiling I have about twenty-four different decks (not to compete with my buddies with 28 and 50) and I spend way to much on Yugi-oh cards. But, I guess I am helping everyone else who likes to play. By running out at each new deck release and snapping them up.

:):)
 
Lancedolittle said:
While individuals selling cards or "singles" to quote another threader here, doesn't have an baring on my previous statement at all. Does no one else wonder why rather than coming up with new ideas they rename and resell in essence the same cards over and over again i.e. UFO Turtle, Giant Rat, Mystic Tomato.

All the same effect just different flavors.

Where has the uniqueness gone.

:):)

There is a reason for these examples not being unique......it would be unfair to one type or attribute to have this kind of awesome support and not another (like tomato control, or the abuse of Shining Angel when DDWL was run in 3s).

But I (and probably everyone else who sees this thread) get what you mean. A good example is warrior lady of the wilderness......can you say Giant Rat with a warrior restriction? Yeah, stupid stuff like that gets on my nerves too. But the cards really are unique for their own case scenario.

And I agree, these "gods" are not broken, but they are really good. With the right support, broken. Like Horus decks with decree and Ha Des. Yup, Ha Des. A few My Body as a Shields for if they try to use a monster effect to destroy horus during their turn, and ha des to attack any monster threat during your turn.

BLS would not have been as broken if he didn't have the chance to attack twice. Just one effect would have been good, but not seriously abuseable to the point of "I drew it........." . It was like when in the anime, someone would draw the orichalcos....uhoh. Game over time, or so it seemed.

All cards have weaknesses, just some have such incredible strengths that you really kind of miss the weakness untill that one person exposes it. Then that card is side decked like crazy just in case you run in to the card in question that you fear. That is just the state of how the game is.
 
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