Chimeratech Headache........

R

roadhouse007

New Member
***If a response could be given within 10 minutes it would be helpful...we are at tourney and have a discrepancy

1) A player here claims that Chimeratech Overdragon recieves an original attack besides his attacks given per his effect. Can someone confirm this is not true?

2) The player also wants to know: If a player has a future fusion active targetting a Chimeratech Overdragon, and the opponent plays System Down,

First, can the player activate system down, or is activation illegal?(I think activation is legal)

Second, if activation is legal, does this affect the summon (and imminent destruction per future fusion) of Chimeratech Overdragon?
 
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1) What do you mean by "besides"?
If says: "The original ATK and DEF of this card become..."
If you mean Megamorph, it should work with it.

2) How can he?
Chimeratech sends all cards to the grave when summoned,
including Future Fusion. This means Future Fusion will destroy
Chimeratech immediately.

Or: System Down cant be chained to the trigger effect of Chimeratech because it's a Normal Spell card.

Or: Regardless what happens with your Machines in the grave Future Fusion will Fusion Summon Chimeratech during your 2nd Standby Phase anyway.
 
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Chimeratech Overdragon does not receive a "Normal Attack" outside of the number of attacks he gains times the number of monsters used for his Fusion.

If he is fused by 10 Monsters, that is the most that he can attack Monsters on the field, and ONLY monsters. He will NOT get "one additional attack" as a normal attack outside of his effect.
 
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Fury said:
1) What do you mean by "besides"?
If says: "The original ATK and DEF of this card become..."
If you mean Megamorph, it should work with it.
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No, that isn't what part of his effect I was talking about. I was speaking number of attacks. Woo got it:

MasterWoo said:
Chimeratech Overdragon does not receive a "Normal Attack" outside of the number of attacks he gains times the number of monsters used for his Fusion.

If he is fused by 10 Monsters, that is the most that he can attack Monsters on the field, and ONLY monsters. He will NOT get "one additional attack" as a normal attack outside of his effect.
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And this is what I was looking for for the second one:

Fury said:
2) Regardless what happens with your Machines in the grave Future Fusion will Fusion Summon Chimeratech during your 2nd Standby Phase anyway.
Click to expand...

I knew both of these, but someone wanted confirmation because they did not believe me. Whenever someone wants me to get a confirmation on a ruling I turn here. Thank you for your input.
 
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roadhouse007 said:
I knew both of these, but someone wanted confirmation because they did not believe me. Whenever someone wants me to get a confirmation on a ruling I turn here. Thank you for your input.
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Glad to be of help. I don't really know why people get so confused on monsters like Ultimate Tyranno and Chimeratech Overdragon, when we have had Asura Priest since Legacy of Darkness, which is well over 15 Sets and a few years ago.

Asura Priest is pretty much the template for monsters that can attack other "Monsters" multiple times (once each).

I could see if Chimeratech Overdragon's effect were simply

"This monster gains 1 attack per number of monsters used in his Fusion Summon"

which would mean that once he ran out of monsters to attack, he could attack the player, but it clearly states that he can attack "monsters" x cards used in fusion, and not the "opponent and monsters" x monsters used.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Glad to be of help. I don't really know why people get so confused on monsters like Ultimate Tyranno and Chimeratech Overdragon, when we have had Asura Priest since Legacy of Darkness, which is well over 15 Sets and a few years ago.

Asura Priest is pretty much the template for monsters that can attack other "Monsters" multiple times (once each).

I could see if Chimeratech Overdragon's effect were simply

"This monster gains 1 attack per number of monsters used in his Fusion Summon"

which would mean that once he ran out of monsters to attack, he could attack the player, but it clearly states that he can attack "monsters" x cards used in fusion, and not the "opponent and monsters" x monsters used.
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The problem is, a lot of people think (just like the judges we always have at a Sneak Preview here in the netherlands) that when it doesn't say it on the card that you cannot do it, you can do it.

Asura Priest says that it cannot attack directly after attacking the monsters. Ultimate Tyranno and Chimeratech doesn't say that, thus many people think that you can do it, because it doesn't say it on the card that you can't.
 
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Chillout1984 said:
The problem is, a lot of people think (just like the judges we always have at a Sneak Preview here in the netherlands) that when it doesn't say it on the card that you cannot do it, you can do it.

Asura Priest says that it cannot attack directly after attacking the monsters. Ultimate Tyranno and Chimeratech doesn't say that, thus many people think that you can do it, because it doesn't say it on the card that you can't.
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And I blame that on some of the answers we get for past Rulings, where, instead of explaining it, they just provide the answer, "If it isnt listed, you can do it" type responses.

That may have appropriately fit the situation the question was posed in, like, "Tributing" versus "Sending" when using a card like Mind Control.

Since it doesnt say you cant "Send" a monsters to the Graveyard to summon a monster when applicable, you can do it.

Since it doesnt say you can't Tribute Ojama Tokens for a Special Summon, you can do it. Since it doesnt say you can't Set a Monster when you summon Sheep Tokens, you can do it. That's okay to say that. But, when you run into a situation where a monster can attack more than once in a Battle Phase, you have to be more specific when addressing the question, even if there is a templating, because of previous answers that state, "If it doesnt say you can't...".
 
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I have a question regarding Chimeratech. It may be one that already received an answer, but I couldn't find it.

If I manage to summon Chimeratech via Future Fusion, Chimeratech would remove Future Fusion from the field, destroying itself, right?

The question is, does Future Fusion target Chimeratech? A friend of mine says that it does, and he negates the effect of Future Fusion over Chimeratech with the presence of Cyber Phoenix on the Field! It's really possible?
 
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Yes. If tuture is used to summon chimeratech he is destroyed when future is sent to the grave via chimeratechs effect. If cyber pheonix is on the field he negates the targetting effect of future as long as he is on the field. Since cyber and future are sent simulataneously to the grave cyber negation effect is active right up until future is removed so chimera stays alive.
 
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EmeraldDragon said:
Yes. If tuture is used to summon chimeratech he is destroyed when future is sent to the grave via chimeratechs effect. If cyber pheonix is on the field he negates the targetting effect of future as long as he is on the field. Since cyber and future are sent simulataneously to the grave cyber negation effect is active right up until future is removed so chimera stays alive.
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Thanks a bunch! Now I can tell my friend he was right all the time...! Shame on me! :nod_yes
 
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EmeraldDragon said:
Yes. If tuture is used to summon chimeratech he is destroyed when future is sent to the grave via chimeratechs effect. If cyber pheonix is on the field he negates the targetting effect of future as long as he is on the field. Since cyber and future are sent simulataneously to the grave cyber negation effect is active right up until future is removed so chimera stays alive.
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Okay, I've held to that answer too. However, I am failing to see the difference between the effect of future fusion still being negated here, and the effect of Aegis of Gaia still going off in this senario http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/OP/COMMUNITY/forums/thread/761215.aspx
basically, Aegis with Royal Decree and both are destroyed at the same time (Heavy Strom), Aegis Still subtracts the 3000LP. That is different how?
 
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Ive been podering the same thing. I say decree should negate the damage effect of aegis but if thats what the big guys say then I cant exactly argue with it. If you wanna ask on the forum go right ahead and they may give us a better answer. without asking them if i had to guess Id say that the second effect is supposed to happen in the grave thus making it not go off but even then if it works in the grave why would it not work when decree is active and aegis blows up via MST..... Lately I havent liked a few of the rulings that have come out. Several of them seem to have some very shaky foundations to stand on. Still ask and see whats said but as it stands it seems like a case of BKSS unless someone can explain it better.
 
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Do not try to use the Aegis of Gaia / Royal Decree answer to extrapolate Future Fusion being negated by something else as it pretty much goes against everything else we've seen so far.

After all, if you had Call of the Haunted active which brought back Cyber Dragon, then Royal Decree was flipped up later, then Giant Trunade was played, as far as I've seen, Cyber Dragon always stays on the field.

The Aegis of Gaia / Royal Decree answer has caused some bit of debate with a lot of people trying to find out why exactly that response was said.
 
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DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
Okay, I've held to that answer too. However, I am failing to see the difference between the effect of future fusion still being negated here, and the effect of Aegis of Gaia still going off in this senario http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/OP/COMMUNITY/forums/thread/761215.aspx
basically, Aegis with Royal Decree and both are destroyed at the same time (Heavy Strom), Aegis Still subtracts the 3000LP. That is different how?
Click to expand...

I've posted the following response to question that ruling as such:
How is it that the player takes damage when Royal Decree has already negated the effect of the face up Aegis of Gaia? When Heavy Storm is activated, it destroys both cards simultaneously and the order of the destruction doesn't use the chain, correct? If Call of the Haunted is face up and attached to a monster and Royal Decree is activated, it negates the effect of CotH. If Heavy Storm is activated, it destroys both cards but since CotH is already negated, the monster remains on the field. The player controlling Aegis of Gaia should not take any damage since it's effect in negated at the time of destruction.

The effect of Cyber Phoenix negating the effect of Future Fusion when Chimeratech is summoned is the same effect of Rare Metalmorph being chained to the effect of Chimeratech when it is summoned. Rare Metalmorph negates the effect of Future Fusion and as such, so will Cyber Phoenix.
 
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In my opinion, Royal Decree SHOULD negate the effect of Aegis of Gaia, since both dissapear from the field at the same time. When two cards go off the field on the same time, the negation effect prevails over an effect that have been negated. Maybe if Curtis was more especific on to WHY Aegis still makes the user lose 3000 LP, we could guess better on the Chimeratech scenario.

Maybe the diference consist solely on the fact that the Aegis of Gaia's effect in "less chainable" than the effect of Future Fusion. Please note that these are the speculations of a newbie TCGamer!
 
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Well, there's the Japanese Expert Rulings Page (JERP). You can just use Babelfish to read an Engrish version.

There's also the text of this card:

【効果】自分は３０００ライフポイント回復する。自分フィールド上に表側表示で存在するこのカードがフィールド上から離れた時、自分は３０００ポイントダメージを受ける。

Run it through any translator, and you'll see "damage".
 
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