Counter Traps during damage step...

Dillie-O

Dillie-O

Council of Heroes
Hey all, I was digging around and reading online and I just wanted to verify something.

Last I checked, during damage calculation, you can only activate Quick-Play spell and traps cards that modify ATK/DEF or counter traps that are negating these types of cards.

I was looking at the special summoners (Mystic Tomato) and found this to help back it up:

Since the Special Summoning occurs during the Damage Step, "Torrential Tribute", etc. cannot be used.

However, I CAN use Divine Wrath against Mystic Tomato during the damage step to negate its searching/summoning ability and destroying it. Here was the ruling:

You can activate "Divine Wrath" during the Damage Step because it is a Counter-Trap, so you may activate it to negate the effect of "D. D. Warrior Lady", "Reflect Bounder", "Injection Fairy Lily", "D. D. Crazy Beast", "Dark Paladin", or "Mystical Knight of Jackal".

The Divine Wrath rulings says that its simply a counter trap and that is why it works.

So just to double check, is Divine Wrath a special case (since its negating the effect of a monster) or is the older ruling about Torrential Tribute a little outdated?
 
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Yeah, but... When Aqua Chorus is activated, there is simply no guarantee it will affect any ATK / DEF. Limiter has a condition that causes it to check for machines. Aqua has the word "if", so we don't have that condition. It can be activated and do nothing.
-pssvr
 
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The wording of "...that DIRECTLY effect the atk or def....." is where I got the explaination I gave above, directly - as in not working through the effects of other cards, not referencing anything other than the monster and it's current stats (and obviously the spell/trap card you wish to activate itself).
 
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It has to know the target, but then so do all cards, the point is that it doesn't need to know anything outside itself and the target to know HOW MUCH TO BOOST BY ("direct increase/decrease" - not referencing other monsters/spells/traps to determine the increase/decrease).
 
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Then we are argueing (sp?) a moot point. In other words, you and I are actually in agreement here. You're saying it is the word "IF" that makes all the difference, right? That because Aqua Chorus *MIGHT* boost ATK / DEF, it cannot be activated in the damage step, right?
-pssvr
 
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<Yelling from the Art Gallery>
sleepy.gif
Hey! Will you guys keep all your thinking down! People are trying to sleep down here!




Oh yeah, Aqua Chorus doesn't count becasue, like somebody said, it's a conditional modifier. "If" there are monsters on the field of the same name. Limiter Removal on the other hand spcifically says double. There is no garuntee Aqua Chorus is going to go off. But Limiter is most definitly going to double the ATK. But somebody already said that. Now, get off my lawn.....

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Sure Halle, I'll go out with out with you.... Theres no need to beg....zzzzzzzzzzzz
 
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*slaps DJ* WAKE UP, YOU LAZY BUM!!!!! Did it work? *throws Charmin Toilet Paper all over DJ's lawn* Yeah, get over it.
Which, as we all know, brings up the question of Strike Ninja and Spirit Elimination. Yeah, so can you activate something that you know will fulfill its activation conditions AS it activates? Or something like that? Better yet, let's go with sacing your F/D monster for Metapmorphosis. YOU already KNOW it will work, shouldn't the same apply with Aqua Chorus?
-pssvr
 
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Not specifically the "if" aspect but rather that the boost is dependent on what other cards are in play and how they relate to both the monster and the spell/trap you're activating. The "if" aspect is just a subpart of it where there may not be any increase/decrease(Ceasefire- with an effect monster face-up and some monsters face down, you know that there will be a decrease to your opponents' lifepoints but not how much).

Reverse Trap when activated doesn't know from it's own text and the monster's stats how much to increase/decrease the monster's stats by, it must indirectly determine this by referencing the attack increases/decreases applied to the monster by other cards.
If a monster was being weakened by Slate Warrior's effect you'd know that Reverse Trap would apply the boost (unless there's someway to remove the effect at a latter point), at least to a satisfactory degree for correct activation, yet Reverse Trap still wouldn't be legal in the damage step.
 
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Offering your own face-down monster for Metamorphosis is fine because you know the level of the monster.

As far as Limiter Removal you cannot activate Limiter Removal unless you have a machine on your side of the field. Thus there is no question as to whether it will boost or not (okay it might not if your opponent chains with DNA Surgery but Limiter Removal didn't know they would be chaining with DNA Surgery now did it?) :)

Aqua Chorus doesn't work because it doesn't care if it is boosting anything when it is activated. It might, it might not. And we can't have wishy washy cards like that involved in the Damage Step now can we?
 
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