Delinquient duo's first discard

M

Manta

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Is the first discard for Delinquient duo serperate from the second?

E.g. I activate duo, and my opponent randomly discards peten the dark clown and then selects and discards sinister serpent.

Is the effect of peten (and similar cards) skipped in this case?
 
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It is 1 effect, but it is not simultaneous. So if "Peten the Dark Clown" is randomly discarded, you won't get the effect since it wasn't the last thing to happen (the other card being discarded is). But it it's the card chosen to be discarded, then it is the last thing to occur and you can get the effect.
 
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densetsu_x said:
It is 1 effect, but it is not simultaneous. So if "Peten the Dark Clown" is randomly discarded, you won't get the effect since it wasn't the last thing to happen (the other card being discarded is). But it it's the card chosen to be discarded, then it is the last thing to occur and you can get the effect.
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Do you have a ruling to back this up? Or is this your opinion?

DD's text is essentially stating "ramdomly discard 2 cards from your Hand" and i view it the same as Graceful Charity. The discard should be simultanious.
 
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It wouldn't be simultaneous since it says for you to randomly discard a card THEN to pick one and discard it. It is 2 separate occurances. Using Graceful Charity as well... you draw 3 cards THEN discard 2. While the discarding there is simultaneous, by using your logic, drawing and discarding would be simultaneous which it isn't.
 
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A discard is a discard. It is the same action repeated twice in a row, therefore it is considered to be simultanious. Graceful Charity, includes both a "draw" and a "discard" which is why they are seperate events.

What is the difference between Duo and Mirage? nothing... one has a fixed amount and the other is varitable. It is only their choice of wording that makes it seem as though it is 2 seperate events.

Also, remember the text on Delinquent Duo is written as such in order to specify that one discard is random and the other is a specific choice. That is why it is worded wierdly, but i do not believe that is enough to make it 2 seperate events.

It seems to be 1 "discard" event with 2 cards discarded, and Peten should trigger if discarded by Delinquent Duo, no matter which card it is.
 
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I'm gonna have to disagree with you here on this one Nova. I too believe it is two separate events.

From the UDE FAQ:
"You cannot use the same "Regenerating Mummy" for both parts of "Delinquent Duo"'s effect."

I interpret this to mean that part 1 is the random choosing and discarding, and that part 2 is the direct choosing and discarding. It's two separate events, not one simultaneous discard like with "Graceful Charity".
 
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novastar said:
A discard is a discard. It is the same action repeated twice in a row, therefore it is considered to be simultanious.

I Special Summon 5 monsters with Cyber Jar... all 5 summons are considered simultanious.

Graceful Charity, includes both a "draw" and a "discard" which is why they are seperate events.

What is the difference between Duo and Mirage? nothing... one has a fixed amount and the other is varitable. It is only their choice of wording that makes it seem as though it is 2 serperate events.

Also, remember the text on Delinquent Duo has been changed, due to originally having both players randomly choose one card, to now it ONLY being the player holding the cards. That is why it is worded weirdly.

You are being too picky on the wording here. Peten will trigger if discarded by Delinquent Duo, no matter which card it is.
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This is a game based upon picky wording. The fact that the word "then" is in the text of the card means it is a separate effect. Delinquent Duo does NOT tell me to discard 2 in one instance. There are 2 separate conditions on the card, each resulting in 1 card being discarded.

The text for Cyber Jar talks about summoning the Appropriate monsters all at 1 time. The text for Mirage of Nightmare has you discarding 0-4 cards in 1 instance.

Take a card like Dragged Down into the Grave. That's 2 effects, discard then draw. Graceful Charity: Draw then discard. Just because Delinquent Duo says to Discard then Discard does not mean both are considered to be a simultaneous discard. If it were would have a text like:

Fuh-Rin-Ka-Zan
Normal Trap

You can only activate this card when there are at least 1 monster each of WIND, WATER, FIRE and EARTH Attributes face-up on the field. Select and resolve 1 of the following effects:
"¢ Destroy all monsters on your opponent's side of the field.
"¢ Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on your opponent's side of the field.
"¢ Randomly discard 2 cards from your opponent's hand.
"¢ Draw 2 cards.

That would be simultaneous. The mechanics of DD though forces it to be 2 separate effects.
 
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skey23 said:
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here on this one Nova. I too believe it is two separate events.

From the UDE FAQ:
"You cannot use the same "Regenerating Mummy" for both parts of "Delinquent Duo"'s effect."

I interpret this to mean that part 1 is the random choosing and discarding, and that part 2 is the direct choosing and discarding. It's two separate events, not one simultaneous discard like with "Graceful Charity".
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That tends to imply that they are simultaneous, not seperate, Skey. You cannot use it for both because there's no time in there. The Regenerating Mummy ruling wasn't the best choice of proof, Simon XD

-chaosruler
 
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skey23 said:
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here on this one Nova. I too believe it is two separate events.

From the UDE FAQ:
"You cannot use the same "Regenerating Mummy" for both parts of "Delinquent Duo"'s effect."

I interpret this to mean that part 1 is the random choosing and discarding, and that part 2 is the direct choosing and discarding. It's two separate events, not one simultaneous discard like with "Graceful Charity".
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The ruling doesn't help, as RM is a Trigger and would not trigger during the resolution of an effect. The outcome would be the same for GC.
 
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chaosruler said:
That tends to imply that they are simultaneous, not seperate, Skey. You cannot use it for both because there's no time in there. The Regenerating Mummy ruling wasn't the best choice of proof, Simon XD

-chaosruler
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My point was to point out the fact that a ruling clearly states there is more than one part to the effect of "Delinquent Duo", that's all. I know the Reasoning why it won't work, I was merely using it to show the multiple parts, therefore not simultaneous issue/thing/weeee!
 
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densetsu_x said:
This is a game based upon picky wording. The fact that the word "then" is in the text of the card means it is a separate effect. Delinquent Duo does NOT tell me to discard 2 in one instance. There are 2 separate conditions on the card, each resulting in 1 card being discarded.

The text for Cyber Jar talks about summoning the Appropriate monsters all at 1 time. The text for Mirage of Nightmare has you discarding 0-4 cards in 1 instance.

Take a card like Dragged Down into the Grave. That's 2 effects, discard then draw. Graceful Charity: Draw then discard. Just because Delinquent Duo says to Discard then Discard does not mean both are considered to be a simultaneous discard. If it were would have a text like:

Fuh-Rin-Ka-Zan
Normal Trap

You can only activate this card when there are at least 1 monster each of WIND, WATER, FIRE and EARTH Attributes face-up on the field. Select and resolve 1 of the following effects:
"¢ Destroy all monsters on your opponent's side of the field.
"¢ Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on your opponent's side of the field.
"¢ Randomly discard 2 cards from your opponent's hand.
"¢ Draw 2 cards.

That would be simultaneous. The mechanics of DD though forces it to be 2 separate effects.
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The reason Duo is worded differently is because 1 discard is random and the other is by specific choice, but it does not change whether the "discard" event is simultanious or not.

It should still be 1 discard event with 2 cards discarded.
 
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skey23 said:
My point was to point out the fact that a ruling clearly states there is more than one part to the effect of "Delinquent Duo", that's all. I know the Reasoning why it won't work, I was merely using it to show the multiple parts, therefore not simultaneous issue/thing/weeee!
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The ruling is in Konami/UDE language, it doesn't mean that at all.

You could say the same thing for Mirage/Graceful/Card D or any other multiple discard effect.
 
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The fact that the card effect dictates that I do something and then do something else after I've completed the first action... how can that be considered simultaneous? Just because the 2 "somethings" are the same action (discarding) they just aren't occuring at the same time. It's a 1 and 1 situation.
 
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In order for it to make sense as a simultaneous discard, the text would need to look something like this:

"Pay 1000 Life Points. Your opponent randomly selects 1 card from his/her hand, and then selects another card from his/her hand. Both cards are then discarded to the Graveyard."

THAT, to me would leave absolutely NO DOUBT that it would be a simultaneous discard of both cards.

But as it stands right now, I'm in agreement with densetsu_x on this one. The text clearly states to complete 1 full action, then complete a 2nd full action. This, to me, does not sound simultaneous in any way at all.
 
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Simon, that wouldn't work. They could select the same card and argue that they don't know which card the opponent picked (somehow, <_<, ok I sound like a dumbass)

-chaosruler
 
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chaosruler said:
Simon, that wouldn't work. They could select the same card and argue that they don't know which card the opponent picked (somehow, <_<, ok I sound like a dumbass)

-chaosruler
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lol..it would work almost exactly as it does now. Except in this case, they would simply set the 'random' card to the side, then pick the 2nd one, then discard both to the Graveyard simultaneously. ;)
 
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Ya had to say it, didn't ya? lol :D

Anyhoo, I can't agree that Delinquent Duo could be construed as one discard event. By it's nature it requires you to randonly select a card, discard it, select another card, discard it. There would have been no need for the long winded phrasing the card text if it was a simuteaneous event. Otherwise it could have just as easily said:

Pay 1000 Life Points. Your opponent selects 1 card from his/her hand and then randomly selects another card from his/her hand and discards both cards to the Graveyard.

But the way it's phrased now is just unneccesarily long if its a single event.
 
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Oddly enough, the text appears differently from one version to the next:

Pay 1000 life points. Randomly select and discard 1 card from your opponent's hand. Your opponent then selects and discards antoerh card from his/her hand.

Pay 1000 Life Points. Your opponent randomly selects and discards 1 card from his/her hand and then selects and discards another card from his/her hand.

I'm not referring to the fact that the first tells the controller to discard the first card and the second doesn't. More so the fact that the former card text has the two effects in seperate sentances while the latter has it all in one. Does this give anyone any inkling?
 
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