Double game loss = double game win

[John Danker]

This just in from UDE....

A double game loss shall be treated as a double game win as well.

You'll see a further explination of this from UDE later but I wanted to make you aware of it. We've been discussing this on the L3 list and the judge manager has made it official.

The problem with a double game loss not also becoming a double game win is that it never helps the match toward forward progress. Now, granted, a double game loss / win may at times not further the match either ( two people tied at 1 game win a piece aided by a double game loss / win makes both players 2-1....I'll assume for the time being that doesn't equate to a double match win as well and that another game must be played) but it does help to make forward progress on a match where one player is ahead 1-0 in games.

Expect to see this in future versions of tournament policy.

 

[magnumcyclonex]

Apparently, this policy was applied at the Anaheim SJC. At the time, I had never heard of it and thought it didn't make much sense. However, most of the other judges PES brought in seemed to already know this during the event.

I too would also like to see UDE's full explanation for this change in policy. My guess is that it has something to do with expediting match play.

 

[skey23]

I was in the same understanding as both you and magnum. This is news to me and just doesn't sit that well with me. But what can we do?....lol.

 

[masterwoo0]

I was in the same understanding as both you and magnum. This is news to me and just doesn't sit that well with me. But what can we do?....lol.

If the situation warrants a Double Loss, it really is ridiculous to could the loss as a "win" for each opponent, especially when in most cases, it is one player that may deserve the actual loss more than the other.

But, if things have disintergrated to the point where this IS necessary, I would have to question why there shouldn't be a more severe penalty.

 

[ygo doc]

This just in from UDE....

A double game loss shall be treated as a double game win as well.

You'll see a further explination of this from UDE later but I wanted to make you aware of it. We've been discussing this on the L3 list and the judge manager has made it official.

The problem with a double game loss not also becoming a double game win is that it never helps the match toward forward progress. Now, granted, a double game loss / win may at times not further the match either ( two people tied at 1 game win a piece aided by a double game loss / win makes both players 2-1....I'll assume for the time being that doesn't equate to a double match win as well and that another game must be played) but it does help to make forward progress on a match where one player is ahead 1-0 in games.

Expect to see this in future versions of tournament policy.

John, I'm glad you asked the question on the L3 site.

I took it one step further and asked to have someone comment on the situation where both players have 1 win and a double game loss = double game win penalty is issued, because both players are now at actually 2-2 (2 wins and 2 losses). It appears easy enough to just play for a 3rd game win to determine a match winner, but you know some rules lawyer is going to argue he/she won because current tournament policy says 2 game wins = a match win, ignoring the fact that there are no match draws.

doc

 

[squid]

Now you guys are talking about ethical breeches, right? But how does that affect someone who successfully resolves the panic button: Self-Destruct Button? Are they guaranteed a win as well as a loss?

Or am I missing something?

 

[John Danker]

A game draw is different than a double game loss. Self Destruct Button puts both players at 9 life points simultaniously...which is a draw.

An example of a double game loss would be when a deck check is done and both players have illegal decks. Double game loses should be unrelated events that occur at the same time.

It is never a good idea to try and resolve a conflict or irrepairable game state with a double game loss.

 

[skey23]

A game draw is different than a double game loss. Self Destruct Button puts both players at 9 life points simultaniously...which is a draw.

At how many LPs? 9? That doesn't LOOK like a draw to me!...

 

[John Danker]

At how many LPs? 9? That doesn't LOOK like a draw to me!...

Dang typos! <untangling his George Jetson syndrome fingers>

 

[magnumcyclonex]

In my area, we've used double game losses to educate the players about their mistakes, especially after the game state has been rendered severely irrepairable. Both players would then start a new game to work towards the 2 wins required for a match win. In many cases, BOTH players can be responsible for the mistakes they have made and not catching them.

But now, with this new policy going into effect, there will probably be more frustration. It punishes sloppy play and will be another source of aggravation - like the end of match procedure.

 

[John Danker]

There IS another option to an irrepairable game state that is common in many other TCGs but for some reason isn't often used in the game of Yugioh....

When both players fail to carry out a mandatory effect and play has progressed too far to fix the game state....they're both given a warning and told to carry on as the game state stands. Both were responsabile, it's too late to fix it, and "restarting" the game may delay the match for others. It's kind of a "you made your bed now sleep in it" solution.

 

[DarkLogicianOfCaos]

So, basically, Cheati'n Pete wins game 1 and durring game two, pulls a combination, so that Sagnan ends up in the grave yard during a multichain. He waits past the opponent's turn until the start of his next turn to say, "Oh, no! We forgot in all the hub-bub to resolve Sangan's effect! Oh, dear, let's get a judge over here to tell us what to do. Oh, Judge.....what? Double Game Loss penalty? Oh, wow, sorry, man, I just won the Match. Too bad."

Yeah, good call!

 

[masterwoo0]

So, basically, Cheati'n Pete wins game 1 and durring game two, pulls a combination, so that Sagnan ends up in the grave yard during a multichain. He waits past the opponent's turn until the start of his next turn to say, "Oh, no! We forgot in all the hub-bub to resolve Sangan's effect! Oh, dear, let's get a judge over here to tell us what to do. Oh, Judge.....what? Double Game Loss penalty? Oh, wow, sorry, man, I just won the Match. Too bad."

Yeah, good call!

That would not result in a Double Loss. At most, the opponent would get a Warning, and the controller of Sangan would get a Procedural Error - Game Loss. Why would both player's get a Game Loss in this situation?