grave keeper vassal versus barrel behind the door versus lava golen

[woltarr]

Gravekeeper's Vassal
Attrib: Spellcaster/Effect
Group: Dark
Level:3
Atk: 700
Def: 500
The Battle Damage this card inflicts to your opponent's Life Points is treated as the Effect Damage of this card.

Barrel Behind The Door
Attrib: Trap Card
Group: Trap
Icon:Counter
When an effect that inflicts damage to Life Points is activated (except Battle Damage), switch the damage you receive to your opponent's Life points.


it has been said that Gk vassal is a continuous efct , so it cannot has its damage shifted with "barrel behind the door"

this is the actual rule

"You cannot activate "Barrel Behind the Door" against damage inflicted by "Gravekeeper's Vassal" because its effect is a Continuous Effect and you cannot activate "Barrel Behind the Door" against Continuous Effects. "



i disagree because i think it is a tuiguered efct whoso triguer is damage being deat trough batlle in regards on similar rules on "lava golen" that is also considered a non continuous efct whose triguer is the standy by phase

what can be done about this?

thanks very much for any imput

woltarr

 

[Dlanaan]

It isn't a triggered effect. It is a continuous effect. Gravekeeper's Vassal's effect always applies. The fact that its effect really only works in battle is irrelevant. There isn't a chainable point where one could chain Gravekeeper's Vassal.

Lava Golem, on the other hand, is a triggered effect. It triggers in the Standby Phase. This can be chained to, so Barrel Behind the Door may be used.

 

[woltarr]

It isn't a triggered effect. It is a continuous effect. Gravekeeper's Vassal's effect always applies. The fact that its effect really only works in battle is irrelevant. There isn't a chainable point where one could chain Gravekeeper's Vassal.

Lava Golem, on the other hand, is a triggered effect. It triggers in the Standby Phase. This can be chained to, so Barrel Behind the Door may be used.

so GK vassal being a continuous efct is a "UDE says so" efct?

because i dont see any diference betwenn the efct of GK vassal and lava golen efct

and the fact of Gk vassal efct being activated when batlle damage being dealt is not irrelevant: but instead it is crucial to this argument

end of efct is continuos

jinzo efct is continuos

but lava golen and GK vassal efct are not continuos because only under a specific circunstance they are active

the actual rule is wrong and should be re viewed

woltarr

 

[magic-snake]

no you dont quite understand

lavagolem: text says it deals damage in the standby phase.

gravekeeper: text says his battle damage is effect damage.


lavagolems damage effect kicks in every standby phase.
gravekeepers effect is just like jinzo, he will negate traps 24/7, not just when they are activated. gravekeeper will also have his effect 24/7 the fact that he only deals damage during damage step has nothing to do with that, his effect will always be appllied.

 

[masterwoo0]

Gravekeeper Vassal's effect only happens when he does damage to the opponents life points through battle or attacking directly.  The damage is treated as "effect" damage and is therefore unchainable with Waboku.

You can, however use Hallowed Life Barrier, since it is "effect" damage.

 

[woltarr]

Gravekeeper Vassal's effect only happens when he does damage to the opponents life points through battle or attacking directly.  The damage is treated as "effect" damage and is therefore unchainable with Waboku.

You can, however use Hallowed Life Barrier, since it is "effect" damage.

masterwood seems to agree with me

woltarr

 

[n00b]

All battle damage that Gravekeeper's Vassal does is treated as effect damage. There is no point that Gravekeeper's Vassal's effect activates to inflict the damage, so Barrel Behind the Door cannot be activated to redirect the damage.

 

[woltarr]

All battle damage that Gravekeeper's Vassal does is treated as effect damage. There is no point that Gravekeeper's Vassal's effect activates to inflict the damage, so Barrel Behind the Door cannot be activated to redirect the damage.

your arguments is based on the fact that player may not choose to activate the efct of GK vassal, so it must be continuous

i will contra argument with des koala efct

des koala has a flip efct that deals efct damage based on the number pf the cards that oponent holds in his hands

player may not choose to activate this efct-he will occur anyway whe he is flip sumoned

even so, it is possible shift this damage with barrel behind the door

so , why not with GK vassal?

i still think that this rule is wrong and must be reviwed

woltarr

 

[Raigekick]

des koala has a flip efct that deals efct damage based on the number pf the cards that oponent holds in his hands

player may not choose to activate this efct-he will occur anyway whe he is flip sumoned

even so, it is possible shift this damage with barrel behind the door

Like what you said, Des Koala has a flip effect, not continuous effect. This is why BBtD works on him.

 

[OKShadow]

Ok... let me see if I can clear this whole thing up.
Barrel Behind the Door works on effects with TRIGGERS. e.g. Des Koala, Poison Mummy, Reflect Bounder, cards that say "FLIP: [inflict damage]" or "when this card is....[inflict damage]".

Cannot be used on cards that do not have a specific trigger... e.g. GK Vassal (perm effect like Jinzo, Spell Canceller), "as long as this card is face-up" effects, Wave Motion Cannon (effect "activates" when the card is activated, when there is no damage), Ante (unknown target for damage if damage occurs), Dice Jar (same as Ante in that no definite target for the damage).

 

[Raijinili]

It's a damage conversion effect, not damage infliction.

The effect isn't doing the damage, it's changing the damage from battle to effect.

So even if it was triggered, which it most certainly isn't, it would not be affected by Barrel, because the effect isn't doing the damage.

Also see: Bad Reaction to Simochi. Another case of conversion. Bad Reaction isn't doing the damage itself, it's changing the LP gain to LP loss.