Hello? Which step occurs first

[FiendMaster]

my opponent use Creature Swap. I gave him my Pyramid turtle and he gave me his Newdoria. He didn't attack and ended turn.

( on the field, my opponent: Spirit reaper in atk mod, pyramid turtle in atk mode, no S/T. me, just Newdoria)

on my turn, I summoned Breaker. If I atk my Pyramid turtle with Newdoria (they both die at the same time), does Newdoria destroy one of the monster on the field first and that could either be Breaker or Spirit Reaper, right? or do I special summon Vampire Lord to myside of the field first before Newdoria destroy any monster?


and can you atk with BLS-envoy first then remove himself?

 

[John Danker]

<laffin> We seem to have started off the week with interesting subject matter haven't we? Since when has this game had consistancy anyway? If that were the case nearly anyone could judge it! <smirk>

 

[Raijinili]

Quote:
masterwoo0 is quoted to have said:
Well (hoping this doesnt diverge into a "Yomi Ship" discussion), Yomi Ship doesnt target because it doesnt care what monster destroys it, as it can only destroy THAT monster.

I dont think that could really be considered a targeting effect.



but, Magic Cylinder, Negate Attack, Trap Hole also can only affect THAT monster but they are considered targetting.

I just explained this today. If it's a manual effect, it would be targeting. Yomi Ship and DDWL are TRIGGERED, and therefore automatic, effects.

Actually, just look at what I typed before. The above might be wrong.

It's better to say that a TRIGGERED effect doesn't target if there's always only one possible card to affect, while a MANUAL effect does target even if there is only one possible target.

And targets are NEVER chosen at resolution, by definition.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

And targets are NEVER chosen at resolution, by definition.

Don't confuse targets (noun) with Targets(verb).

A card that affects chosen monsters will definitely have to select a target at one point. Creature Swap selects targets at resolution because it does not target.

Only the verb Target is a game mechanic in yugioh. Target as a noun is not, for the rules it would be a "Targetted card"

EDIT: well i suppose the Adjective would also be a game mechanic

 

[novastar]

my opponent use Creature Swap. I gave him my Pyramid Turtle and he gave me his Newdoria. He didn't attack and ended turn.

( on the field, my opponent: Spirit Reaper in atk mod, Pyramid Turtle in atk mode, no S/T. me, just Newdoria)

on my turn, I summoned Breaker. If I atk my Pyramid Turtle with Newdoria (they both die at the same time), does Newdoria destroy one of the monster on the field first and that could either be Breaker or Spirit Reaper, right? or do I special summon Vampire Lord to myside of the field first before Newdoria destroy any monster?

The chain would work as such:

[Chain Link 1] Newdoria (target -> Breaker or Spirit Reaper)
[Chain Link 2] Pyramid Turtle

resolve...

You would be forced to choose either Reaper or Breaker because Newdoria targets before you would Special Summon with Pyramid Turtle.

Maybe this has been resolved already but i thought i'd add.

 

[John Danker]

I don't think it had been actually stated <chuckling> This was a very interesting thread and I think a lot of us learned, or at least refreshed our knowledge of chaining monster effects, targeting, and a few other mechanics!

Thanks to all who contributed. It's these types of threads that are highly beneficial to those who are trying to study up for a judge test or just want to advance their mechanics knowledge of the game.

For those of you who don't think mechanics knowledge is a key factor in the game (you must be reasonably new to it) let us asure you that many games on any level are won because of technical knowledge of the game on a regular basis. Threads like these are the way to not just learn a ruling but to understand it in depth thus enabling you to extrapolate rulings in other scenarios.

 

[glueuk2001]

The BLS can only atk OR remove once per turn if you chose to remove he cannot atk if you chose to atk he cannot remove this turn.

Pyramid turtle gets his effect first so you get to bring out vamp lord, then your opponet gets his newdoria effect. he chooses what gets destroyed between Spirit reaper, breaker or vamp lord (which would come back anyway. if he doesnt decided for it to be vamp lord you do know you can still atk with vamp lord this turn.

my opponent use Creature Swap. I gave him my Pyramid turtle and he gave me his Newdoria. He didn't attack and ended turn.

( on the field, my opponent: Spirit reaper in atk mod, pyramid turtle in atk mode, no S/T. me, just Newdoria)

on my turn, I summoned Breaker. If I atk my Pyramid turtle with Newdoria (they both die at the same time), does Newdoria destroy one of the monster on the field first and that could either be Breaker or Spirit Reaper, right? or do I special summon Vampire Lord to myside of the field first before Newdoria destroy any monster?


and can you atk with BLS-envoy first then remove himself?

 

[John Danker]

The BLS can only atk OR remove once per turn if you chose to remove he cannot atk if you chose to atk he cannot remove this turn.

Pyramid turtle gets his effect first so you get to bring out vamp lord, then your opponet gets his newdoria effect. he chooses what gets destroyed between Spirit reaper, breaker or vamp lord (which would come back anyway. if he doesnt decided for it to be vamp lord you do know you can still atk with vamp lord this turn.

Perhaps you best read through the entire thread before offering an answer. The mechanics of this question are just a bit more intricate than they may first appear.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

I just explained this today. If it's a manual effect, it would be targeting. Yomi Ship and DDWL are TRIGGERED, and therefore automatic, effects.

Actually, just look at what I typed before. The above might be wrong.

It's better to say that a TRIGGERED effect doesn't target if there's always only one possible card to affect, while a manual effect does target even if there is only one possible target.

Wow, a simple ruling--a simple explanation of a mechanic-- could Konami be starting to make sense...

Nope, too good to be true.

Negate Attack targets, it's manually activated and can only affect that one monster...

But Divine Wrath is manually activated, and can only effect that one monster:
"¢ "Divine Wrath" is NOT a card that targets, so "Divine Wrath" may be used against Dragon-Type monsters while "King Dragun" or "Lord of D." is on the field

 

[Raijinili]

Perhaps the effect negation may have something to do with that. Then again, the Curse of Royal ruling.