How to defeat TerrorKing Archfiend?

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Wizit

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Hello

I am trying to work out the sort of card which will defeat cards such as Terrorking Archfiend (TK AF).

TK AF specifies:
'When this card is specifically designated as a target of the effect of a card controlled by your opponent, when resolving the effect, roll a six-sided die. If the result is 2 or 5, negate the effect and destroy the opponent's card. Also negate the effect of an Effect Monster that is destroyed by this monster in battle.'

I was initially thinking that something like 'Yomi Ship' would defeat TK AF because Yomi does not target. However, since Yomi would be destroyed as a result of battle, this would not work - because of the last comment in the card text.

Cards such as Torrential Tribute, Tribe-Infecting Virus and Bottomless Trap Hole would also risk being negated...

Any other hints how to defeat archfiends where they can roll a dice to negate my effect?

Thanks
Wizit
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
They are immune to Divine Wrath because their effects are not chainable.
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You're trying to say the Archfiends are NOT AFFECTED by (immune to) "Divine Wrath"?

That's not true. "Divine Wrath" does not target. Since the effects of almost all the Archfiends require them be targeted by some effect, they would not be able to use their 'roll' ability, to negate the effect of "Divine Wrath". So even if "Divine Wrath" wasn't a Counter Trap, they would still not be able to 'roll' to negate it.
 
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skey23 said:
You're trying to say the Archfiends are NOT AFFECTED by (immune to) "Divine Wrath"?

That's not true. "Divine Wrath" does not target. Since the effects of almost all the Archfiends require them be targeted by some effect, they would not be able to use their 'roll' ability, to negate the effect of "Divine Wrath". So even if "Divine Wrath" wasn't a Counter Trap, they would still not be able to be destroyed by it.
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Archfiend cards for the most part have Continuous effect.

Terrokings negation effect is continuous. Divine wrath may not be chained to it.
Shadowknight's damage halving effect is continuous and may not be chained to.

The die rolling is a trigger effect, but occurs as a chain is resolving, thus may not be chained to.

Desrook on the otherhand has an Ignition effect, and thus Divine Wrath destroys it. I'm not sure about Infernalqueen's effect.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Archfiend cards for the most part have Continuous effect.

Terrokings negation effect is continuous. Divine wrath may not be chained to it.
Shadowknight's damage halving effect is continuous and may not be chained to.

The die rolling is a trigger effect, but occurs as a chain is resolving, thus may not be chained to.

Desrook on the otherhand has an Ignition effect, and thus Divine Wrath destroys it. I'm not sure about Infernalqueen's effect.
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Oops! I stand corrected then.
 
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CraniumX said:
Speaking of which, why aren't you and Archfiend?
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Well, Terrorking has his own turf and I have my own. Every now and then, you might see us join forces in one way or another, but for the most part, Terrorking and I are long distance cousins that communicate sometimes, but give each other space.


KingPinOPie said:
Cant have 2 rulers in the same circle of friends... The ArchFiends are a higher order of FIend... Terrorking is that ruler.... The regular fiends, ones that would be lower - middle class if you will... are ruled by Dark Ruler HaDes
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WHAT THE?!?!? OK, I'm now officially insulted. This is LITERALLY a slap in the face of both Fiends and Archfiends.

Neither the Fiends nor Archfiends are a "higher order" than the other. We're just different KINDS of fiends. Kind of like how you call all of the humans "Humans", but within them, there are "Men" and "Women", big lizards are Crocodiles and Alligators, and Hawks and Eagles are both big birds of prey. So we are all "Demons" but we are split between Fiend and Archfiend.

As for your comment"¦.

*splashes green Kool Aid all over kingpinopie's face*


ChaosRuler said:
i dunno, but wouldn't the king of archfiends be Skull Archfiend of Lightning???
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The throne doesn't always go to the physically strongest. BLS-Envoy is the strongest Warrior but Freed is the General, and Dark Magician is "The ultimate wizard in terms of attack and defense", but clearly, DMoC, Dark Paladin and Sorcerer of Dark Magic are the physically stronger Spellcasters.

The King is king, because he leads not because he's king.


Now about Divine Wrath vs. Archfiends:

The only Archfiends that have effects that trigger are Desrook Archfiend, which is triggered by discarding him from the hand when Terrorking is destroyed, Archfiend of Gilfer, which would need to be Divine Wrathed during the End Phase and Shadow Tamer, who's a Flip effect monster.

All of the other Archfiends, including Infernalqueen Archfiend, have Continuous effects.

Now, as far as Spell Speed goes, ignore it. The Dice Roll effect of the Archfiends is faster than ANYTHING in the game. Faster than Spell Speed 1 (Change of Heart, Snatch Steal), faster than Spell Speed 2 (Magic Cylinder, Sakuretsu Armor) and faster than Spell Speed 3 (Negate Attack), which can all be negated by a correct dice-roll of the Archfiends.

However, Divine Wrath doesn't target and because of this, we'll never be able to tell whether or not Divine Wrath would've EVER been able to destroy an Archfiend. Oh well!



Dark Ruler Ha Des
 
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Always get confused whether the Which of the Archfiends have Continous or Not, the Dice Rolling during the resolution is somthing New I havent heard about, so before I make another mistake I should take sometime and read up on it.

If all else Fails, Tribe Infecting Virus.
 
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Yeah that's a new one on me too. I'm not debating it mind you, Archfiends are something I need to delve into much deeper. Their effect happens at resolution, that seems against every game mechanic though doesn't it?
 
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ArchFiend Negation in ARRJ?

Hi

After all of this discussion, I am still not sure how to beat the ArchFiend's dice-roll effect.

It seems that cards such as Fissure, Bottomless TrapHole etc can beat them because they do not target. I still don't understand about Divine Wrath...

Maybe in the next edition of ARRJ, they can write an article explaining this issue?

Thanks for all the discussion.
Wizit
 
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Wizit said:
Hi

After all of this discussion, I am still not sure how to beat the ArchFiend's dice-roll effect.

It seems that cards such as Fissure, Bottomless TrapHole etc can beat them because they do not target. I still don't understand about Divine Wrath...

Maybe in the next edition of ARRJ, they can write an article explaining this issue?

Thanks for all the discussion.
Wizit
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The effect of dice rolling only occurs when a card targetting the Archfiend is resolving, so Divine Wrath cannot be activated in response to it.

Think of these Archfiend's having a continuous like effect.

Preferably, instead of Fissure, I'd take Smashing Ground anyday ;) they work much better.
 
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Divine Wrath vs ArchFiend

Hi again

I gather from the previous comments that while Divine Wrath cannot counter an ArchFiend once it is active on the field, it seems that I can activate Divine Wrath in response to the summon of an ArchFiend to 'negate the activation and effect of an effect monster'.

Wizit
 
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John Danker said:
Yeah that's a new one on me too. I'm not debating it mind you, Archfiends are something I need to delve into much deeper. Their effect happens at resolution, that seems against every game mechanic though doesn't it?
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It's the reason Archfiends are SO mean. No other monsters can add steps to a chain already in progress except for the Archfiends. But it's also a double edged sword. Archfiend players are ussually faced with very difficult desicions. For example, your opponent activates Change of Heart on your archfiend. Do you use Magic Jammer to negate it, or save Magic Jammer for a more serious Spell card (Like to counter a Heavy Storm to protect Pandemonium) or do you let it try to resolve and rely on the Dice Roll. I was kinda shocked myself, but there it is, right on the card:

"When this card is specifically designated as a target of the effect of a card controlled by your opponent, when resolving the effect, roll a six-sided die."

Wizit said:
I gather from the previous comments that while Divine Wrath cannot counter an ArchFiend once it is active on the field, it seems that I can activate Divine Wrath in response to the summon of an ArchFiend to 'negate the activation and effect of an effect monster'.
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The thing is, ALL of the Archfiends have continuous effects. And as we all know, Continuous effects don't use the Chain blocks. They simply place the field under a certain condition. For example, Jinzo makes a condition in which all face-up traps are negated and face-down traps can't be activated. Forced Requisition places a condition in which when its controller discards cards, their opponent discards the same number of cards. Appropiate (and this is a GREAT example) makes it so that when the opponent of it's controller draws outside of their draw phase, its controller draws 2 cards.
This is why the whole "2 Appropiates active and one player draws outside of the draw phase = deck out or Exodia"
If one player draws an MST, they can't activate it to destroy one of the Appropiates. This is because the continuous effect uses no Chain blocks and must continue to "activate" (for lack of a better word) until it stops.


chaosruler said:
i'm writing an article on archfiends, should i include Divine Wrath in the article, besides it vs. die-rolling???
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Well, like we've discussed here, you might wanna state that it's useless against most Archfiends and why. But other than that, there's no way to connect them both.



Dark Ruler Ha Des
 
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