Is Bait Doll useless or 1 step from God like???

[LordGanja]

I just read an article by Sakura on Deck Rev telling me that I can play Bait Doll on my own Elemental Burst , destroy all cards on my opponents side of the field and not have to tribute the 4 monsters because Bait Doll negates the cost and activates it for you.Then Bait Doll returns to my deck.It also returns if I use it on my opponents trap cards such as Mirror Force,Bottomless Trap Hole,Etc....after destroying them like a reusable MST.


Questions

1.Pardon my ignorance but is this correct or is he full of it?

2.If he is correct (God help my opponents if he is),then does this mean that Bait Doll can negate any activation cost of any trap assuming the timing and requirments for activating the card are correct?

3.What are the ins and outs of Bait Doll returning to the deck?

Thank You very much for your time .

 

[Maruno]

I think the cost of Elemental Burst is in fact a "supercost", meaning if you want to activate it at all ever, you must pay the cost (the Tributes). However, Bait Doll doesn't let you do so. So Elemental Burst isn't activated correctly and is negated and so forth.

Cards worded "<do something> to activate this card" have this "supercost" which must be paid to activate it. Such cards cannot be successfully forced by Bait Doll, as a rule of thumb.

Please, someone immediately provide a counter-example. It's obvious I haven't done my research through the card library. I just come up with half the things I say to help me remember the rulings, not always because they're the correct mechanisms.

 

[novastar]

If it didn't matter, then why is it on the card in the first place? As I said, there are only 7 cards with that exact text. I don't think it was by random choice.

5 of which happen to be SOD or later, possibly indicating a slight change in templating. It could be grammer, good or bad.

For instance, i don't see any difference between Premature Burial and Archfiend's Roar.

There should be no difference between saying:

"Pay 500 Life Points to activate this card."

and

"Pay 800 Life Points."

There are lots of examples of cards that have slightly different wording and mean the same thing. If there was ruling to further your arguement, then it would be worth looking at.

 

[Fiendish Envoy]

2 Follow-Up Questions:

1) So, if the controller did have the four required monsters, would Bait Doll force the activation?

2) Is the reason for it normally not having correct timing because of the text "...to activate this card..." (which is found on only the seven cards below), or is there some other reason?

Archfiend's Roar
Assault on GHQ
Battle-Scarred
Elemental Burst
Ninjitsu Art of Decoy
Rope of Life
Taunt

Answer:


1. If the activation requirement is met, then it should follow that "Bait Doll" would successfully force the activation of "Elemental Burst".

2. It's not so much that line of text, but rather the fact that Tributing the four monsters is a cost of activation. And if you cannot meet the activation cost of a card, it cannot be activated (but of course, you know that).

__________________
Steve Okegawa
Official UDE Netrép Rules Coordinator
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG

 

[Fiendish Envoy]

Basically, what he's trying to say is that Bait Doll would only force the activation of a card if that card could be activated at that exact same time (and meet all necessary requirements). That makes sense.

Lets say you had 500 Life Points left, and the Trap Card had a cost of paying 1000 Life Points. Bait Doll would see that as illegal timing and not force the activation.

 

[Raijinili]

I think the cost of Elemental Burst is in fact a "supercost", meaning if you want to activate it at all ever, you must pay the cost (the Tributes). However, Bait Doll doesn't let you do so. So Elemental Burst isn't activated correctly and is negated and so forth.

Cards worded "<do something> to activate this card" have this "supercost" which must be paid to activate it. Such cards cannot be successfully forced by Bait Doll, as a rule of thumb.

Please, someone immediately provide a counter-example. It's obvious I haven't done my research through the card library. I just come up with half the things I say to help me remember the rulings, not always because they're the correct mechanisms.

There IS no "super-cost". It's "activation requirement (including activation cost)", "side effect", and "effect". That's it.

If you want to know why the text is different, find the pattern within the costs. What kind of costs don't have that specific type of text?

There's your hint.