Jinzo and RFTDD

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ChaosMachine

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If Jinzo is one of the monsters special summoned by return from the different dimension will he negate them being removed from play at the end of the turn?
 
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No. Nothing can ever negate the effect of a card that has already resolved. RftDD qualifies as a lingering state, and cannot be negated.

*waits for someone to mention Jowgen vs Last Turn*

That is different. Jowgen does NOT negate the effect, only prevent the summoning.

-pssvr
 
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As always, negate, prevent, and unaffected by are different things. Jinzo can't negate a card that's already reolved, but Wildheart can be unaffected by it.

I hear there's a new horror film coming out about this thread, it's called, "Destroy vs Discard II: No matter who wins, mankind loses"

-pssvr
 
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No, no please no more :'( I can't talk about Wildheart anymore, with the Threatning Roar vs Wildheart issue going on everywhere, its just too much...

:)
 
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It really comes down to how Konami / UDE decides to define the wording of the card. Does Threatening Roar target the player or the player's cards?

You're right, players don't attack....they do, however, DECLARE the attack. You can't attack with a monster until you DECLARE which one you're attacking with. If you're prevented from declaring then who's to know what monster you mean?

*EDIT* I should also add that Swords of Revealing Light says the same thing and we know that it doesn't stop monsters uneffected by spell cards from attacking <shrug>

As I said, it's all up to Konami's thought pattern at the moment.
 
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pssvr said:
No. Nothing can ever negate the effect of a card that has already resolved. RftDD qualifies as a lingering state, and cannot be negated.

*waits for someone to mention Jowgen vs Last Turn*

That is different. Jowgen does NOT negate the effect, only prevent the summoning.

-pssvr
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Last Turn has nothing to do with many things because Last Turn's only initial effect is the sending of cards to the graveyard.
 
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John Danker said:
It really comes down to how Konami / UDE decides to define the wording of the card. Does Threatening Roar target the player or the player's cards?

You're right, players don't attack....they do, however, DECLARE the attack. You can't attack with a monster until you DECLARE which one you're attacking with. If you're prevented from declaring then who's to know what monster you mean?

*EDIT* I should also add that Swords of Revealing Light says the same thing and we know that it doesn't stop monsters uneffected by spell cards from attacking <shrug>

As I said, it's all up to Konami's thought pattern at the moment.
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I strongly disagree. <EDIT: Yeah, you read that right. I just basically said I think Mr. Danker is wrong. Lotta nerve, eh?> The problem is not how the wording is defined; the wording is flat wrong. Players do not attack, nor do they declare attacks. Players just guide their monsters, in the actual attacking process, only the monster is up for consideration. Hence why Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6 laughs in the face of The Dark Door.

We must never forget the show. Despite the elaborations of priority and junk like that, YGO is, in fact, based on the show. Which, in turn, is based on battles between monsters. These monsters are the ones who attack. I don't ever recall Yugi yelling, "I attack you directly with my Celtic Guardian!" I do, however, distinctly recall him saying, "Go, my Celtic Guardian, and attack his Life Points directly!"

The show. It pwns.

-pssvr
 
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I belive I addressed this in my errata thread recently. I was trying to make the wording of cards that prevent attacks more condusive to the rulings. Never felt I hit the nail on the head with that one though.
 
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pssvr said:
I strongly disagree. <EDIT: Yeah, you read that right. I just basically said I think Mr. Danker is wrong. Lotta nerve, eh?> The problem is not how the wording is defined; the wording is flat wrong. Players do not attack, nor do they declare attacks. Players just guide their monsters, in the actual attacking process, only the monster is up for consideration. Hence why Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6 laughs in the face of The Dark Door.

We must never forget the show. Despite the elaborations of priority and junk like that, YGO is, in fact, based on the show. Which, in turn, is based on battles between monsters. These monsters are the ones who attack. I don't ever recall Yugi yelling, "I attack you directly with my Celtic Guardian!" I do, however, distinctly recall him saying, "Go, my Celtic Guardian, and attack his Life Points directly!"

The show. It pwns.

-pssvr
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You're basing that off of a translation of the Japanese anime, which is based off the Japanese manga.
 
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Raijinili said:
You're basing that off of a translation of the Japanese anime, which is based off the Japanese manga.
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Ummm... Indeed I am... Is there something wrong with that? These discussions always make me feel so clueless... <grumble grumble>

-pssvr
 
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<laffin> Oh we're going to include the cartoon in on a debate of rulings now? THIS should get interesting!

I can't remember once one of the monsters speaking...though I must admit I don't watch the cartoon nearly as often as I judge <smirk> To the best of my recollection a declaration is to state formally or officially....I don't ever remember Blue Eyes White Dragon or Celtic Guardian telling their opponnent that they're attacking do you?
 
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John Danker said:
<laffin> Oh we're going to include the cartoon in on a debate of rulings now? THIS should get interesting!

I can't remember once one of the monsters speaking...though I must admit I don't watch the cartoon nearly as often as I judge <smirk> To the best of my recollection a declaration is to state formally or officially....I don't ever remember Blue Eyes White Dragon or Celtic Guardian telling their opponnent that they're attacking do you?
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No. The players "declare" the attack, but that doesn't make it any less the mosnter's attack. The monsters attack, even if the players announce it. And declaring an attack is treated the same as attacking, because of the wording issues.

...in other words, I just basically proved that you're right and I'm wrong... how odd...

-pssvr
 
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