Master Monk

masterwoo0

masterwoo0

NINJA4LIFE
I didnt think my question was that hard, but it only took about 4 to 5 months to answer....


Master Monk vs Book of Moon or Tsukuyomi 2006-03-30 15:59:00 <James Johnson>


1. Okay, Master Monk's effect allows him to attack twice in the same Battle Phase,
but not necessarily back to back, so he can attack, then let another monster
attack, and resume Battle himself.

That being said, if Master Monk attacks a monster, and after the Damage
Calculation is complete, my opponent activates Book of Moon to flip him
face-down, does this reset his effect if he is somehow flipped face-up in attack,
allowing him to again attack twice in the same Battle face, ignoring the fact
that he already attacked once,

or

Will he only be able to carry out his second attack, if he can still attack
at all?

2. Same scenario as above, only substitute attacking a face-down Tsukuyomi.

Thanks!

----------------------------------------------------

If you attack once (or twice), and then after the attack "Master Monk" is flipped-face down by "Tsukuyomi" or "Book of Moon",
you could activate "Desert Sunlight" then "Final Attack Orders" and attack 2 more times.

Dan Scheidegger
Jr. Game Designer
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D
Upper Deck Entertainment
 
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slither said:
So this means that it will apply to any monster which has already attacked?
Click to expand...

It seems to be saying that, since Master Monk forgot making its first attack.

It also seems to be saying that if you flip face-down the monster you normal summoned than you can normal summon again, because flipping a mosnter makes it forget its limited per turn condition.

It also seems to be saying that you can use the effects of Cards that flip themselves face-down successfully multiple times in the same turn (like Guardian Sphinx). The only time you can't use it again is if you activated it, but it didn't manage to go face-down, so it couldn't forget that it made a limited per turn condition.

In short,
unless this ruling makes it on to the official site, just ignore it.
 
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How do you ignore a "Official" answer? Are you saying we should no longer trust the judges on the Judge List?

That is the reason I asked the question. I already knew the answer. I just wanted to bring it here so people could see it in writing....
 
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masterwoo0 said:
How do you ignore a "Official" answer? Are you saying we should no longer trust the judges on the Judge List?

That is the reason I asked the question. I already knew the answer. I just wanted to bring it here so people could see it in writing....
Click to expand...

The judge's list is NOT on official source of rulings.

Monsters can only attack once per turn.
Monsters can only manually change their position once per turn.

We have nothing to make a difference between the two. We can't flip summon a monster twice in one turn.

There was nothing in that post to explain the ruling, it doesn't say this came straight from konami, it goes against the logic of other judge's list posts:

http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=2851

And obviously "Guardian Sphinx" couldn't be Flip Summoned again that turn, for ALL THREE reasons from above: It was Summoned this turn, it attacked this turn, and it had its battle position changed this turn.

So you can't flip summon a monster the turn it attacked, because it doesn't forget it attacked when it was flipped face-down.

Now So if Master Monk attacks and is flipped face-down, it can't be flip summoned because it has already attacked this turn. It doesn't forget that it attacked.
 
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Your logic makes no sense. I cant imagine someone sitting in a room saying to themselves,

"I really have to make a ruling for EVERY possible scenario before I post any of the rulings I have already!!"


We would never get rulings if that were the case. If a UDE Official answers a question, I would assume that that is the ruling that would be the most correct, whether you like it or not.

Further more, I dont recall asking if I could flip summon him again. I think he mentioned the way's to get him back face-up and in attack during the Battle Phase, which did not involve a flip summon.

EDIT: And, like I said in my initial post, THAT'S why it took almost 5 months to get a answer to this question, and I know this because I havent been able to post to the Judge"s List since Dec 5, 2005.

Master Monk's effect allows him to attack twice in a Battle Phase, which means that he is not restricted to the "once per turn" that you mentioned.
 
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I don't recal Flip Summong even being part of the oringal question. The question involved flips.

Also, when did the Official Judges List not become the Official Judges List?
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
The judge's list is NOT on official source of rulings.

Monsters can only attack once per turn.
Monsters can only manually change their position once per turn.

We have nothing to make a difference between the two. We can't flip summon a monster twice in one turn.

There was nothing in that post to explain the ruling, it doesn't say this came straight from konami, it goes against the logic of other judge's list posts:

http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=2851

And obviously "Guardian Sphinx" couldn't be Flip Summoned again that turn, for ALL THREE reasons from above: It was Summoned this turn, it attacked this turn, and it had its battle position changed this turn.

So you can't flip summon a monster the turn it attacked, because it doesn't forget it attacked when it was flipped face-down.

Now So if Master Monk attacks and is flipped face-down, it can't be flip summoned because it has already attacked this turn. It doesn't forget that it attacked.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you. You state rulings from the Gameplay FAQ but forgot to mention that the ruling pertains to "manually" changing the battle position of a monster that was normal or flip summoned and attack the same turn it was summoned. The FAQ rulings state:
1. A "manual" change. This is when you use your once-per-turn battle position change on a monster, during your Main Phase 1 or 2, to change it from attack position to defense position or vice versa. This includes a Flip Summon. There are some restrictions on when you can do this (see below).

2. A change because of a card effect. Examples: "Enemy Controller", "Zero Gravity", "Guardian Sphinx", "Book of Moon" and "Tsukuyomi".

A "manual" change can only be performed during your Main Phase 1 or 2. There are 3 exceptions that will prevent you from "manually" changing a monster's battle position:

Exception #1: You cannot "manually" change the battle position of a monster if it declared an attack that turn (even if the attack was negated or a replay occurred).

Exception #2: You cannot "manually" change the battle position of a monster if it was Summoned or Set that turn by the turn player.

Exception #3: You cannot "manually" change the battle position of a monster if its battle position was already changed "manually" that turn (including if it was Flip Summoned).



Please note that You CAN always change the battle position of a monster with a card effect, even if any of the above exceptions prevent you from changing its battle position "manually".



Note the terminology stating changing battle positions "manually". So, the ruling exists that you can change the battle position of a monster that was normal or flip summoned, attacked and then flipped face down by a card effect and use another card effect to flip him face up again to attack once more.
 
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I have no issues with the battle position changes, but I always thought that a monster that had already attacked that turn would not be able to attack again except by an effect even if it was flipped face down and back again during the same Battle Phase...

So this means that I can flip Matazza the Zapper and attack as much as 4 times if I use Book of Moon, Desert Sunlight and Zero Gravity?
 
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And THIS is the reason I asked the question.

When I looked at his effect, I said to myself, "Hmmm, if Master Monk can attack twice in the same turn, but not necessarily have to attack back-to-back, what would happen if he only attacked once, and then was flipped face-down?

His effect allows him to attack "again" if he has already attacked, why wouldnt it still allow him to attack once more if he is somehow flipped face-up in the same turn?

And, if he can attack once more, why not "twice" more??

Mataza the Zapper must attack back-to-back and his effect doesn't state he can have another Battle Phase, just another attack.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
And THIS is the reason I asked the question.

When I looked at his effect, I said to myself, "Hmmm, if Master Monk can attack twice in the same Battle Phase, but not necessarily back-to-back, what would happen if he only attacked once, and then was flipped face-down?

His effect allows him to attack "again" if he has already attacked, why wouldnt it still allow him to attack once more if he is somehow flipped face-up in the Battle Phase?

And, if he can attack once more, why not "twice" more??

Mataza the Zapper must attack back-to-back and his effect doesn't state he can have another Battle Phase, just another attack.
Click to expand...

Such are the "mechanics" of the game as everyone likes to talk about. Konami just didn't see this possibility when it designed the card text and effect of Master Monk. If his position is changed by a card effect after his first attack to a face down defense position, then changed back to attack by other card effects the same turn, then the conditions reset themselves and Master Monk gets to attacks twice more (unless he is changed by the above card effects AGAIN!). Everyone always talks about how flipping a monster face down resets that monster and it's effect, why not in this case? If battle conditions are reset by a player using Book of Moon, then the same should hold here. My position- Master Monk attacks TWICE more.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
And THIS is the reason I asked the question.

When I looked at his effect, I said to myself, "Hmmm, if Master Monk can attack twice in the same turn, but not necessarily have to attack back-to-back, what would happen if he only attacked once, and then was flipped face-down?

His effect allows him to attack "again" if he has already attacked, why wouldnt it still allow him to attack once more if he is somehow flipped face-up in the same turn?

And, if he can attack once more, why not "twice" more??

Mataza the Zapper must attack back-to-back and his effect doesn't state he can have another Battle Phase, just another attack.
Click to expand...

What I don't understand is this:

If you attack once (or twice), and then after the attack "Master Monk" is flipped-face down by "Tsukuyomi" or "Book of Moon",
you could activate "Desert Sunlight" then "Final Attack Orders" and attack 2 more times.

Dan Scheidegger
Jr. Game Designer
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D
Upper Deck Entertainment
Click to expand...

The "or twice" statement means that even if Master Monk has attacked with both its two opportunities, he can still attack twice more, why wouldn't that apply to any other monster??
 
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No, no, maybe im not explaining myself that clearly... this statement:
If you attack once (or twice), and then after the attack "Master Monk" is flipped-face down by "Tsukuyomi" or "Book of Moon",
you could activate "Desert Sunlight" then "Final Attack Orders" and attack 2 more times.
Click to expand...
Involves Master Monk attacking once or twice, let's simplify it just a tad, if I attack with Master Monk twice because his effect allows it to attack twice, it would mean that he always has 2 shots at attacking right... any other monster has only 1 chance or one allowed attack per turn (unless an effect says otherwise of course)...

Now going back to the bolded section in the quoted statement, it would mean that Master Monk would have attacked twice because of its capability of him having 2 attacks per turn... right so far? With this being true, if I were to flip him face-down "or" reset his effect, the quoted section says that he can attack again twice, meaning he gains another chance or better yet gains the faculty of his 2 attacks per turn.

If this holds true then it would mean that any other monster can regain that priviledge/faculty/chance/etc. of attacking even though they have already taken that action.

Maybe im seeing to much into this, but it just sounds very strange and weird.
 
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You're seeing something that isnt there. Unless the monster states that it can attack more than once per turn, it can only attack "once per turn" as stated by Normal Game Rules.

Master Monk says that he can attack multiple times per turn. That's his "effect".

What you are stating is not an effect. You cannot reset a Monsters ability to attack more than once if that is not his effect.

What you are stating is the reset of a Game Rule, not Game Effect.
 
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slither said:
No, no, maybe im not explaining myself that clearly... this statement:

Involves Master Monk attacking once or twice, let's simplify it just a tad, if I attack with Master Monk twice because his effect allows it to attack twice, it would mean that he always has 2 shots at attacking right... any other monster has only 1 chance or one allowed attack per turn (unless an effect says otherwise of course)...

Now going back to the bolded section in the quoted statement, it would mean that Master Monk would have attacked twice because of its capability of him having 2 attacks per turn... right so far? With this being true, if I were to flip him face-down "or" reset his effect, the quoted section says that he can attack again twice, meaning he gains another chance or better yet gains the faculty of his 2 attacks per turn.

If this holds true then it would mean that any other monster can regain that priviledge/faculty/chance/etc. of attacking even though they have already taken that action.

Maybe im seeing to much into this, but it just sounds very strange and weird.
Click to expand...
Um, isn't that what I said. :confused_
 
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Yes, precisely, but what im hinting to is the if Monster Monk attacked twice already and it's flipped face down, why would his effect be reset, if he already got to attack twice, I mean maybe im really getting into nothing, but what I wan't to get out of my system is this...

If Master Monk gets his effect reset does this mean he has no "legal" once per turn attack?
 
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What I was saying is maybe Master Monk's attacks are purely effect granted abilities. Effect: Attack twice.

Whereas something like Mataza the Zapper or Hayabusa Knight has an effect that gives you one more attack in addition to the usual. Effect: Attack once more.

One would be something you can reset the same turn. The other would be something you burn for the turn.
 
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