Mirror Wall vs. Injection Fairy Lilly

A

anthonyj

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http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=2321

Did this make sense to anyone else?  I've read it like a dozen times and I still come up with the same result.  Even if you were to chain Mirror Wall to Injection Fairy Lilly pumping Mirror Wall would still resolve and halve the 400 Atk then the pump would resolve and make the ATK 3200.
The question is posed correctly to allow for chaining Injection Fairy Lilly to the activation of Mirror Wall to get an end result of 1700 ATK and the award for stupidest chain of the year, but this post by Kevin just doesn't address that.
 
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One, Mirror Wall is a continuous effect is it not? And that is done at the beginning of the attack. (declaration)

Two, IFL's effect takes place during Damage Step after Mirror Wall has resolved with no response.

To me IFL hits 3200 at Damage Calculation.
 
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But... it's a priority issue again.

IFL is attacking. That player has priority. He would most certainly activate her effect first. The opponent is stuck to chaining to her effect now...

Of course the other person I guess could wait and start a new chain... but supposedly Kevin was writing an essay as to why that couldn't be done... the same for why "Kinetic Soldier" and "Limiter Remover vs. a Warrior forces KS to double first then add.

I'll go check on something...
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Kinetic Soldier, Metalmorph

The controller doesn't choose when to activate them.  They are not activated until the players are 'ready to do the math'
Click to expand...
Okay, that's fine but Theresa was asking whether you could chain Injection Fairy Lilly to the activation of Mirror Wall in the damage step. Which would be silly granted but could certainly be done to get to 1700 ATK.
 
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Well, I double checked Kevin's original posting on the mailing list so this would be very doable.

I attack with IFL. I activate her effect, to pump her up. Opponent does nothing. Chain resolves.

Now, after that resolves, the opponent activates "Mirror Wall" to start a new chain (halving her to 1700).

The only reason why this won't work is if there is a priority or timing issue, but supposedly, multiple chains can be activated during the battle and damage steps.

Oh, and we can blame Konami for the reason why Kevin has posted his Priority FAQ to help clear this up, because on Sept 9th he submitted it to them for their review. So blame Konami, not UDE right?

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/ude_yu-gi-oh_tcg_judge_list/message/10719

(Semi-off topic there, but then again, isn't Priority the appropriate topic for any thread?)

- A
 
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If i am not mistaken, the entire logic provided by Kevin in both the IFL and Kinetic Soldier scenarios, is flawed.

I know it may seem weird, however both of these monsters do not actually recieve the ATK boost until the final numbers are compared. It is as if the boost is simply tacked on at the end. When you actually do the final tally and compare and determine results, no chaining can occur or interupt, only continuous effect can apply. So Mirror Wall cannot affect that.

Going by that, you can never halve or double either of the boosts. IFL would, in any case, always be 3200 ATK.

I will research more. I believe i was told that it was written in the JERP, or has some reference to it. If anyone knows about it, please post it.
 
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Which was written by kevin, which i stated, has flawed logic on this. I am not referencing that FAQ at all, as i am aware of how he outlined it. Just because you can activate it then, does not necessarily mean that it actually gives the boost right at that moment.

Incidently, as far as i know, Mirror Wall is not allowed to be activated during the Damage Step according to JPN rules. I realize we play by NA rules, but it does present a case where it makes sense to outlaw it, since it is really supposed to apply as soon as the attack enters the Damage Step, as a sort of Continuous/Trigger.

Of course, i'm not 100% sure at all, so i'm not saying i'm correct on this.
 
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So we're back to 1) Can you activate multiple chains in the Damage Step?  And 2) If you can then why can't you just wait for Lilly to resolve her effect and then activate Mirror Wall?  Kinetic Soldiers wording is a little bit different so I guess I can see some argument to "increase the ATK and DEF of this monster by 2000 points only during damage calculation" being interpreted as "this means add the 2000 points once everything has been activated and you are actually calculating damage".  If this is a continuous effect that can't be chained to and happens after all other modifiers have been thrown in then I'll live with that.  But Lilly isn't a continuous effect and it certainly doesn't say "during damage calculation" on her so what gives?

So a trap that directly effects ATK or DEF can not be played in the Damage Step? Wow, if that isn't exception to the rule?
 
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I'm not necessarily disagreeing... just pointing out what we have to go on as "Official".

As for "Mirror Wall", it's legal in NA to activate it in the damage step since it falls under the "Modify ATK/DEF" category. Granted, if it were already active, I can see where it would apply at the start of the damage step (but I can't see too many people leaving it active on the field).
 
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I know d, not to worry, i'm merely adding to the convo, maybe in hopes of bringing out the truth. Lily has always been a source of great headaches for me.

Lily is really worded erroneously, in both languages. The term "Damage Step" in the context of this card text, is refering to Damage Calculation, as sometimes the terms are used synonymously and this is one of those cases.

I was told it had to do with the duration of the boost. Both boosts are actually identical, even though the wording suggests otherwise. The duration is only for the current calculation, which is was it is simply a tack-on.

just my thoughts.
 
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Of course as to the specific question, we have the UDE FAQ to turn to for the answer:

"¢ The effect of "Mirror Wall" will reduce "Injection Fairy Lily"'s ATK by half before you decide to use its effect or not. So if you activate its effect, its ATK will be 3200. If 2 copies of "Mirror Wall" are active, its ATK will be 3100.

Of course that doesn't say anything about activating "Mirror Wall" after IFL raises her stats...

Anyone want to bother e-mailing Kevin directly for a little bit of a clarification?

- A
 
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