Missing Optional Effects

S

Space Coyote

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I was wondering when you miss optional effects like Archfiend of Gilfer's? I think you only miss them when there's no chance to chain, like with tribute summons or back-to-back effects, but wouldn't I be able to get his effect if I discard him to A Feather of the Phoenix, because he is discarded as a cost, and then my opponent will either chain or pass priority, then I will be able put it as chain like 2 or 3, respectivly?
 
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Ok, hang on here a minute. Let me see if I understand what is being asked here. You want to activate "A Feather of the Phoenix", so you discard "Archfiend of Gilfer" as the cost. And you want to then use "Archfiend of Gilfer"s effect afterwards?

If that's the correct scenario, then no, you can't do that. "Archfiend of Gilfer" is one of those monsters with that stoopid timing issue because his effect is optional. If the last thing to happen/occur/resolve is NOT him hitting the Graveyard, then you've missed the timing to use his effect. In this case, the last thing to happen/occur/resolve was a card being added to the top of your deck.
 
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icecold said:
i dont like that game mechanic!!!!
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I never really understood that game mechanic or ruling as much as you do. But I agree with it.

I guess they felt as some cards would be much too abusive or much too powerful in game play.

Just imagine how chaotic it would be with 3 Archfiend of Gilfers running around on the field.
 
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Maybe I am mis-speaking, but wasn't Archfield of Gilfer the reason why they created that game mechanic in Japan in the first place? Woodland Sprite + Archfiend of Gilfer going to the grave for any reason = GG.

I remember being at a tourney (not judging) and observing the final match in which someone was trying to pull off that very combo (apparently that is how he had won all day long). I walked over to the head judge and explained the ruling to him. Needless to say the gilfer guy was not happy.

Back to topic, yes optional effects like Gilfer's need to be the last thing to happen in order to work. In the case of Feather of the Phoenix. You send Gilfer to the grave then return a card from your grave to the top of your deck. The last thing to happen was returning a card to the top of your deck. Therefore Gilfer missed his chance.

Now if you were to discard Gilfer for Graceful Charity's effect, then, yes you could use Gilfer's effect.
 
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papewaio is correct. If it was discarded for Graceful Charity the effect would activate because the discarding of Archfiend of Gilfer is the last thing that goes on the chain.
 
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Well, to clarify Bill's statement, the discard of Archfiend of Gilfer is the last thing to happen during the RESOLUTION of the current chain, also, just FYI, it doesn't matter if you discard Archfiend of Gilfer and THEN something else, or vice-versa, because they are considered simultaneous discards.

-chaosruler
 
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