at our local tournament this weekend we had a disagreement about using book of moon in response to the summon of mobius... i had thought that ... if turn player retains priority to use mobius' efffect, and i respond with book of moon ....(nothing else was played)...book would resolve first,flipping moby face down and he would then not get off his effect...(sort of like BoM & Spirit Reaper)...i felt the only way my opponent could have used moby's effect was if he 'passed' on priority and responded to book of moon with mobius' effect....then moby' would've destroyed bom & my face down rfdd , bom would resolve flipping moby and cards are then sent to graveyard.....can you set us straight?
mobius & book of moon ...
- Thread starter cuzwbd
- Start date
Duelmaster
New Member
cuzwbd said:
The (optinal) trigger-effect (if you choose to use it) starts a Chain Link with Mobius as Chain Link 1. Then your opponent can chain to Mobius effect, with Book of Moon. Book of Moon will resolve first puting Mobius face-down then Mobius will resolve and destroy the other card(s) and put them in the Graveyard.
Duelmaster
New Member
cuzwbd said:
If you tribute a monster and place him face-down how would your opponent know that your face-down card is Mobius the Frost Monarch.
An effect of monster will not resolve if the monster need to be face-up in order to resolve something or there need something to be equip to. And Mobius the Frost Monarch doesn't need to be face-up to resolve, because there is nothing that need to be equip to him for example: If you Book of Moon Relinquished then the effect of Relinquished dissapears. If you got a Spirit Reaper face-up and your opponent plays Snatch Steal on it and you Book of Moon your Spirit Reaper, Spirit Reaper will not be destroyed because it needs to be face-up when target and face-up when the card that target him resolve. And Snatch Steal effect dissapears because it needs a face-up monster to be equiped to, because there isn't one his effect dissapears (and it would be destroyed by Game Mechanics, because a Equip Spell needs something to be equiped to).
sigh.... yeah - point i was trying to make was how does a face down monster get its effect....unless it specifically says...like sand moth or big shield guardna....and i used spirit reaper as an example - sr has an effect that says when targeted.... book of moon targets... but sr dosent destroy its self after flipping face down...i guess i thought that a summoned monster that gets booked is sort of considered summoned face down....at least as far as using his effect.....i mean if chaos sorcerer is summoned - turn player wants priority to remove.. and you book of moon chaos.... does he get to remove after chaos is face down???? i had always thought not - unless priority was waived ( or used to activatesomething else) - and effect was used in response to book of moon - whereby effect resolves first in chain....then book of moon...( provided effect has speed to jump in on chain...)
some how the logic is escaping me.... sigh
bd
some how the logic is escaping me.... sigh
bd
Once Mobius effect is placed on the chain, his presence on the field has no bearing on what happens to his effect anymore. Mobius effect is now Chain Link 1 on a resolving chain. Mobius is not getting his effect face-down, as no monster can activate an effect when the game doesn't "see" the card in play. Mobius is having his effect activated, placed on the chain, while he is face-up. Whatever effect chained to that trying to affect Mobbius will only affect the Monster Card and not the effect that was triggered off of it.
Once an an effect is placed on a chain, there is nothing you can do to prevent it from resolving, other then using another effect that negates it, or setting up conditions to where the effect cannot resolve properly. Book of Moon does neither of these.
Spirit Reaper is a completely different scenario. Reaper is a Continuous Effect, not Trigger nor Ignition. It is always on, and never uses the chain. The reason Reaper cannot destroy himself until the card targeting him resolves is because Continuous Effects can only insert themselves between links of a chain, but they can never interrupt a resolving link. His effect has to wait until an effect like Book of Moon resolves before his Continuous Effect can apply. Sine he is no longer face-up, his effect no longer applies.
Spirit Reaper's effect is continuous and does not use the chain. Mobius the frost monarch's effect is a trigger and does use the chain. Once an effect is placed on the chain, unless the text of the effect is specifically tying the effect to the card being face-up, then the effect is not dependent on the card being face-up.
Once an an effect is placed on a chain, there is nothing you can do to prevent it from resolving, other then using another effect that negates it, or setting up conditions to where the effect cannot resolve properly. Book of Moon does neither of these.
Spirit Reaper is a completely different scenario. Reaper is a Continuous Effect, not Trigger nor Ignition. It is always on, and never uses the chain. The reason Reaper cannot destroy himself until the card targeting him resolves is because Continuous Effects can only insert themselves between links of a chain, but they can never interrupt a resolving link. His effect has to wait until an effect like Book of Moon resolves before his Continuous Effect can apply. Sine he is no longer face-up, his effect no longer applies.
Spirit Reaper's effect is continuous and does not use the chain. Mobius the frost monarch's effect is a trigger and does use the chain. Once an effect is placed on the chain, unless the text of the effect is specifically tying the effect to the card being face-up, then the effect is not dependent on the card being face-up.
MightyDingo
New Member
I think the hang up here is the difference between activation and resolution (Non-Continuous, Continuous). Mobius needs to be face-up to activate his effect, but does not need to be face-up to resolve his effect. On the other hand Spirit Reaper needs to be face-up during resolution for his self-destruction effect to kick in. Thus he is safe from Book of Moon or Tsuku use. I hope this helps.
Probably another factor that throws people off, is that he has to be face-up during the resolution of the effect that targeted him to self destruct. Not Spirit Reaper's effect. Spirit Reapers effect does not activate or resolve, it "becomes active" when he becomes face-up on the field, and "becomes inactive" when he is not face-up anymore. I think what's throwing a lot of people off is that their attaching the word "resolve" to Spirit Reapers effect, even though his Continuous Effect isn't capable of doing that..
Dillie-O
Council of Heroes
Word, you guys nailed it on the head. Nice job Dingo and DJ....
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</shameless plug>
<shameless plug>
I wrote an article a little while ago describing this exact phenomenon and how to work your way through these things. You might peek over at the Netrep Articles section if you're curious... 8^D
</shameless plug>
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