Please advise - Spell & Trap Removers

[Wizit]

Hello

I am generating a Gravekeeper deck (previously posted under the Advanced Deck area) and wish to include some Spell & Trap bouncers. However, I am unclear on the chainability of some of them. I now list the cards in question and my issues with them.

Mystical Space Typhoon & Dust Tornado
- I have no question with these. I know that if I play a MST or DT, then my opponent can activate the targetted spell or trap and the effect still occurs (unless it is continuous of course).

Giant Trunade & Heavy Storm
- If I play one of these, can my opponent activate ALL of his set spells and traps if the timing is right? I think he can because chaining allows for one user to chain, the next to refrain, the first user to chain again etc. This would mean, he could activate each of (for example) Cemetery Bomb, Waboku, Rite of Spirit etc.

- If this is the case, what is the use of these cards? They sound good to clear the field but not if the opponent can suddenly activate some of his cards now.

Xing Zhen Hu
This card selects two set spells &/or traps and prevents them being activated while XZU is face-up on the field. Can the opponent chain with one or both of the targetted S & T cards? If so, again what is the use of this card?

Breaker the Magical Warrior & Mobius the Frost Monarch
Once again, these cards sound great in that when they have a counter removed (for BMW) or are successfully summoned (for MFM), they can select one or two set spells & traps respectively and destroy them. Can the opponent chain with the targetted cards?

Some explanation and clarification of the above would be greatly appreciated. I have reviewed the Ronin Ruling Database but it is not overly clear on these issues.

Thanks
Wizit

 

[Raigekick]

Mystical Space Typhoon & Dust Tornado
- I have no question with these. I know that if I play a MST or DT, then my opponent can activate the targetted spell or trap and the effect still occurs (unless it is continuous of course).

Continuous trap will still resolve it's effect, but it will later be destroyed. For example, if Skill Drain is chained to MST, then Zombyra will reset to 2100 ATK points, then Skill Drain is destroyed on MST's resolution. Or if Witch of the Black Forrest was revived by chaining Call of the Haunted, Witch's effect will still resolve.

Giant Trunade & Heavy Storm
- If I play one of these, can my opponent activate ALL of his set spells and traps if the timing is right? I think he can because chaining allows for one user to chain, the next to refrain, the first user to chain again etc. This would mean, he could activate each of (for example) Cemetery Bomb, Waboku, Rite of Spirit etc.

True if the spell speed is correct. If a counter trap was activated, no other slower spell speed can be chained to.

- If this is the case, what is the use of these cards? They sound good to clear the field but not if the opponent can suddenly activate some of his cards now.

Some traps may not be chainable to them. i.e. Sakuretsu Armor, Ring of Destruction, Divine Wrath, .... It's a risk.

Xing Zhen Hu
This card selects two set spells &/or traps and prevents them being activated while XZU is face-up on the field. Can the opponent chain with one or both of the targetted S & T cards?
:
Breaker the Magical Warrior & Mobius the Frost Monarch
Once again, these cards sound great in that when they have a counter removed (for BMW) or are successfully summoned (for MFM), they can select one or two set spells & traps respectively and destroy them. Can the opponent chain with the targetted cards?

Opponent can chain one or both of them.

If so, again what is the use of this card?

Look above.

EDIT: These cards does not target f/d spell/trap only. They are sometimes use to target continuous spell/trap cards that are anoying you.

 

[Hinky]

Added Note ANY spell or trap card activated in the chain that Giant Trunade is activated in WILL NOT return to the owners hand (including Giant Trunade itself)

 

[Big Oldprankster]

Quote:

- If this is the case, what is the use of these cards? They sound good to clear the field but not if the opponent can suddenly activate some of his cards now.


It seems to me you are concerned about wasting space in your deck. If you add these spell/trap remove cards, your opponent will still get to use them. Possibly a different approach on your side would be to allow your opponent to play them and add cards to stop the activation(seven tools, trap jammer, royal decree). I have tried this in the past and had some success at it. Just a thought.

 

[John Danker]

What Big OldPrankster is saying holds some water, especially in the case of Gravekeeper and Zombie Decks. Both of these decks have supporting cards that let you special summon their monsters like no other. I'm of course talking about Book of Life and Rite of Spirit.

By using cards to stop the activation of spell cards or destroy them before they activate that use discarding as a cost, you're able to discard monsters to be special summoned with Book of Life or Rite of Spirit AND stop the activation of Spell / Trap cards.

So why not try Magic Jammer and Raigeki Break instead of the cards you've named to discard your Gravekeepers and then special summon them? Raigeki Break is a very versitle card and chainable. Magic Jammer surprises most people.

The best decks rarely tribute summon for their higher level monsters. This is an excellent way to follow this ideal in a Gravekeepers Deck.

 

[anthonyj]

Trunade is a trade off card meant to clear the field just for that round. It can also clear up your s/t zone so you can choose what you need on the field again. The chainability aspect of a trap is exactly why so many people use cards like Waboku that will still get the effect even if destroyed or bounced. You have to assume that your opponent will have some S/T removal in their deck so you will naturally tend to gravitate to the traps and quickplay spells that will use up that removal and still get the effect.

I've seen few Gravekeeper decks that just need 1 open shot to end the duel. That is where Trunade really shines, heavy hitter decks that need to put that Sakuretsu Armor or Negate Attack back in the opponents hand just for that 1 round and then swing for the homerun.

Cards like Royal Decree (yeah I know $$$), or Cold Wave might be better for you. Raigeki Break is great for flexibility (especially with a pair of Night Assailants). You could also throw in a Swarm of Locust to get some repeatable removal.

And just as a clarification to Hinky's post, Continuous Traps activated in a chain to Giant Trunade will still go back to the owner's hand when Trunade resolves. (I'm sure everyone knows this but just in case a young duelist is reading and takes your post literally.)

 

[Hinky]

And just as a clarification to Hinky's post, Continuous Traps activated in a chain to Giant Trunade will still go back to the owner's hand when Trunade resolves. (I'm sure everyone knows this but just in case a young duelist is reading and takes your post literally.)

I knew I forgot something..........it was early