Priority and the other non-chainable actions

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carlossilva

New Member
So we've all discussed the issue of priority after the turn player summons a monster and we all know that turn player retains priority but is limited in what it can do next to a summon. Namely, he cannot play a normal spell or take another non-chainable action without giving the opponent a chance to respond with a spell speed 2 effect.

There are, however, other non-chainable actions that may be performed by the turn player in his Main Phase. He can:

1. Set a Monster
2. Change a monster's battle position
3. Set a S/T card

For at least the first two of these three, there are cards in the game that must be activated in response to these actions ( D.D. Trap Hole, Tragedy ). Therefoer, they should create response points just like the summon of a monster.

So, how exactly does priority work in these circumstances ? Does the turn player retain priority after one of these actions ? If so, what exactly can he / can' t he do ?

Thanks

Carlos
 
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carlossilva said:
1. Set a Monster
2. Change a monster's battle position
3. Set a S/T card

For at least the first two of these three, there are cards in the game that must be activated in response to these actions ( D.D. Trap Hole, Tragedy ). Therefoer, they should create response points just like the summon of a monster.
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All three of these actions create a "Event" that can be responded to.

1. You already mentioned D.D. Trap Hole
2. Again, you already mentioned Tragedy (and what if the monster is Dream Clown or Crass Clown?)
3. You can activate Dust Tornado or Mystical Space Typhoon

The Turn Player has priority to start a chain. Setting a monster does not cause the Turn Player to lose Priority.

Changing a monsters Battle Position should not cause the Turn Player to lose priority, unless it has a "Triggered Effect" (remember, changing position includes a Flip Summon, to which a monster can have an Ignition Effect, ie, Chaos Sorcerer).

Setting a Spell or Trap Card should not cause the Turn Player to lose his priority.
 
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Thanks. I didn't include anything with a trigger, since in this case a chain would be automatically started.

Should we assume that after one of those actions, just like for a summon, the turn player, although having priority to start a chain, can't start it with a normal spell ?

Cheers

Carlos
 
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Setting a Spell is not the same as "Playing a Spell", so if you set a Spell or Trap Card, you would not have Priority to activate a Spell Speed 1 Card Effect directly afterwards. Setting a card is a Event, which I think we both agreed on.

If you create an Event, your opponent is still entitled to respond to it before you create a "new" Event with a Spell Speed 1 Effect.
 
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Well this has never been outlined anywhere.

If you create an Event, your opponent is still entitled to respond to it before you create a "new" Event with a Spell Speed 1 Effect.
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Are you trying to say that non-spell speed events give the opponent priority first? Because that is exactly the opposite of what priority is for.

Going by precedence, the Turn Player would be able to activate first in all of these cases, the same as it is for summoning and attacking and drawing.

You can only perform these actions when there is no Response timing, and they do not have Spell Speeds, so i would equate it to Normal Summoning and the like.

I really wish we could get some real official word on how this works, because even LV3's are really all over the map when it comes to this (this is not aimed at you masterwoo0).
 
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novastar said:
Well this has never been outlined anywhere.

Are you trying to say that non-spell speed events give the opponent priority first? Because that is exactly the opposite of what priority is for.

Going by precedence, the Turn Player would be able to activate first in all of these cases, the same as it is for summoning and attacking and drawing.

You can only perform these actions when there is no Response timing, and they do not have Spell Speeds, so i would equate it to Normal Summoning and the like.

I really wish we could get some real official word on how this works, because even LV3's are really all over the map when it comes to this (this is not aimed at you masterwoo0).
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What I'm saying is, if you set a Monster Card on the field, You have Priority to activate an Ignition Effect of a monster or activate a Spell Speed 2 or higher effect.

Setting a monster and then playing "Heavy Storm" would seem like bypassing the opponents opportunity to respond to the set card, ie, "D.D. Trap Hole". I am not 100% as I still have my doubts from the whole "solemn judgment" argument, but there is always room for discussion.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
What I'm saying is, if you set a Monster Card on the field, You have Priority to activate an Ignition Effect of a monster or activate a Spell Speed 2 or higher effect.

Setting a monster and then playing "Heavy Storm" would seem like bypassing the opponents opportunity to respond to the set card. I am not 100% as I still have my doubts from the whole "solemn judgment" argument, but there is always room for discussion.
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Ok now i understand.

We are in 100% complete agreement here.

Solemn Judgment is a special case (patch mechanic) and the logic should not be applied to any other (non-spell speed) event scenario.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
What I'm saying is, if you set a Monster Card on the field, You have Priority to activate an Ignition Effect of a monster or activate a Spell Speed 2 or higher effect.

Setting a monster and then playing "Heavy Storm" would seem like bypassing the opponents opportunity to respond to the set card, ie, "D.D. Trap Hole". I am not 100% as I still have my doubts from the whole "solemn judgment" argument, but there is always room for discussion.
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Although, if the opponent chains to Heavy, he is still responding to the set card, as it was the last thing to occur (resolve, happen, whatever). D.D. Trap hole will still do it's number.
 
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DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
No, the chaining is done TO Heavy by D.D. Trap hole, in response to the setting of the monster. The Turn player having used his priority after setting the card to use Heavy Storm.
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Again. If your opponent sets a monster, and retains priority he/she does not then decide to use Heavy Storm. He/She has to use a Spell Speed 2 or higher and/or Ignition Effect.
 
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Tiso said:
Again. If your opponent sets a monster, and retains priority he/she does not then decide to use Heavy Storm. He/She has to use a Spell Speed 2 or higher and/or Ignition Effect.
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Turn Player can't respond to an event he creates with a Spell Speed 1 effect that isn't from a face-up Monster Card he controls. Setting a Monster is the event. Once he moves on to playing Heavy Storm he's bypassed that event and moved on to another one. The setting if the monster card could have been responded to by him and/or passed to his opponent. Once both players move on to the playing of Heavy Storm the reponse chain for the setting of the monster has long since been bypassed.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Turn Player can't respond to an event he creates with a Spell Speed 1 effect that isn't from a face-up Monster Card he controls. Setting a Monster is the event. Once he moves on to playing Heavy Storm he's bypassed that event and moved on to another one. The setting if the monster card could have been responded to by him and/or passed to his opponent. Once both players move on to the playing of Heavy Storm the reponse chain for the setting of the monster has long since been bypassed.
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Digital, why are you telling me this? I just said that to the guy myself.
 
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Tiso said:
Again. If your opponent sets a monster, and retains priority he/she does not then decide to use Heavy Storm. He/She has to use a Spell Speed 2 or higher and/or Ignition Effect.
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So, is it different, then between setting a monster and summoning a monster? because if you summon a monster, we all know that you can retain priority to activate its effect (spell speed one or no). Or am I just not understanding what you mean by response? Please clarify (and go easy on me, I'm learning).
 
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DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
So, is it different, then between setting a monster and summoning a monster? because if you summon a monster, we all know that you can retain priority to activate its effect (spell speed one or no). Or am I just not understanding what you mean by response? Please clarify (and go easy on me, I'm learning).
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Actually what we are saying is that it actually is the same (with the exception of the SJ/HoH "window" prior to it).

When you Set a monster, you retain priority and can activate any Spell Speed 1 Ignition Monster Effect or Spell Speed 2 (or higher) Effect.
 
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DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
So, is it different, then between setting a monster and summoning a monster? because if you summon a monster, we all know that you can retain priority to activate its effect (spell speed one or no). Or am I just not understanding what you mean by response? Please clarify (and go easy on me, I'm learning).
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You do not, however, have priority to activate a Spell Speed one effect if it isn't from a face-up monster card you control. In other words, you cannot activate Normal Spell Cards in response to an event.
 
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After five minutes of shaking off the cognitive disonance, I think I have it. You can only "respond" to something (even if it is your own, technically, activating a monster's effect as soon as it is summoned is not a response to the summon) with a spell speed 2/3. Is this also true:
Senario: I have Kaibaman on the field (thanks to Shining Angel), draw,standby, I summon Mirage Dragon. Now, I do not have priority to activate Kaibaman's effect right? (your statement above leaves it open a little: "if it isn't from a face-up monster card you control") I have to either respond to Mirage Dragon's summon with a spell spee 2/3, or see if my opponent can respond, right?
 
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