Questions about IO, Soul Exchange, and Horus LV6

[Raigekick]

I have a lot of questions guys, so please bare with me.

1) If my opponent activates Mystical Space Typhoon and targets my f/d Imperial Order, can I chain Imperial Order (which was set on the previous turn) and negate the effect of MST?

2) Can I play Soul Exchange and target my opponent's monster even though I don't have any monster on my side of the field?

3) Lets say I and my opponent each have one monster on the field. Can I play Soul Exchange and target his monster, then tribute both monsters to bring out Blue Eyes White Dragon, a 2 tribute monster?

4) Can I play Heavy Storm if all s/t zones on both fields are empty? I wanted to do this when I needed to add 1 spell counter on Magical Marionette to use his effect.

5) can I play Fissure or Smashing Ground if Horus LV6 (or Legendary Fisherman with Umi out) is the only monster my opponent has? Same reason for adding 1 spell counter on Magical Marionette.

6) Lets say my opponent has Horus LV6 and Jinzo on the field. If I play Fissure, will it select Horus LV6 and won't do anything, or will it select Jinzo since Horus is unaffected by spell cards?

 

[Dillie-O]

1) Yes you may. This is the classic example of the chicken vs. the egg. Depending on the order of the chain determines the outcome of destroying vs. negating.

2) Yes, you can use your opponents monster for a Soul Exchange tribute in place of your own, even if there isn't one of the field

3) Yes, Soul Exchange can be used for two tribute monsters now.

4) To my knowledge, no. You can't activate a Spell card if its not going to have any effect.

5) No, for the same reason as #4 above.

6) Fissure will select Jinzo, since Horus is an invalid target for Fissure.

 

[Maester Bacman]

Just to add; Dillie-O was correct, you can't use an effect that will do nothing, like Dark Hole with no monsters or Heavy Storm without other Magic/Traps, since Heavy Storm doesn't count itself. [I'm not counting any possible exceptions]

I just seem to disagree in the last point, looking at this ruling:

"¢ If "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV 6" is the only monster on the field, you can activate a Spell Card that designates a target, but its effect will be negated because "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV 6" would be the only valid target and it is unaffected by Spell Cards.

Then, it is possible to activate cards like Tribute to the Doomed against "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV 6" because it is considered a legal target.

Then, Fissure should try to destroy "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV 6" instead of Jinzo, looking at the situation from this point of view.

 

[Raigekick]

But Fissure, Smashing Ground, and Hammer Shot does not designate a target like Tribute to the Doom.

 

[densetsu_x]

In your scenario, if you played "Fissure" and your opponent has "Jinzo" and "Horus LV6", Fissure would seek out the monster with the lowest ATK, which would be Horus who in turn would be immune to the effect.

- Andrew

 

[Raigekick]

If Fissure will seek out Horus LV6, but the effect will fizzle down, then on question #5 will work. I can use Fissure (even though it will not kill Horus LV6) for the sole purpose of adding 1 spell counter on Magical Marionette. Then that would be cool.

 

[densetsu_x]

If Fissure will seek out Horus LV6, but the effect will fizzle down, then on question #5 will work. I can use Fissure (even though it will not kill Horus LV6) for the sole purpose of adding 1 spell counter on Magical Marionette. Then that would be cool.

I would agree with that since "Fissure" only requires there be at least 1 monster on the opponents side of the field.

- A

 

[Raigekick]

Thank you all for all your replies. Now I can play the game correctly

 

[Raigekick]

I was looking at NetRep CardRegistry, The Change Log, The AARJ 1.1 and 1.2, but I could not find anything that states a) you don't have to have a monster on your side of the field to activate this card, and b) you can tribute the only monster on your field and the targeted monster to tribute summon a 2 tribute monster.

Can you guys point me to the ruling about Soul Exchange which pertains to the two issues above. I need to show proofs to my opponent. Thanks.

 

[densetsu_x]

I was looking at Netrepâ„¢ CardRegistry, The Change Log, The AARJ 1.1 and 1.2, but I could not find anything that states a) you don't have to have a monster on your side of the field to activate this card, and b) you can tribute the only monster on your field and the targeted monster to tribute summon a 2 tribute monster.

Can you guys point me to the ruling about Soul Exchange which pertains to the two issues above. I need to show proofs to my opponent. Thanks.

Soul Exchange
Normal Spell

Select 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field. When your offer your monster as a Tribute, offer the selected monster in place of 1 of your monsters. During this turn, you cannot conduct your Battle Phase.

What that means is once you activate "Soul Exchange", if you need to tribute a monster for any reason (for a tribute summon, for the effect of "Catapult Turtle" or "Cannon Soldier", for "Share the Pain", for "Mystik Wok", anything) you can use the targeted opponent's monster. That simply is how the card works. You don't need one on your side of the field. The opponent's monster will take it's place. Now if you need 2 tributes for say a "Blue-Eyes White Dragon", by the 2nd sentence on the card, you can use the targeted opponent's monster in place of 1 of yours so you would use that and 1 of yours and poof... instant Blue-Eyes.

It's hard to explain it past that ecause that simply is the effect of the card.

- Andrew

 

[caesar_rivera]

1) that is ok
2)yes you may
3)yes you may
4)i think so
5) yes you can, but if the spell cards effect will not resolve
6) if you activate fissure, but it will be the same as above, both monsters remain.

 

[Raigekick]

Thanks for the replies and I agree with you guys, but this is where my opponent's argument is:


Soul Exchange
Normal Spell

Select 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field.  When your offer your monster as a Tribute, offer the selected monster in place of 1 of your monsters.  During this turn, you cannot conduct your Battle Phase.

1) When your offer your monster as a Tribute is a condition, so you must have one monster on your side of the field eligible for tribute in the first place.

2) Offer the selected monster in place of 1 of your monsters. This is how my opponent sees this card: The soul of the 2 monsters (on on my side and the other on my opponent's side) are switched. So if I tribute my monster, the other monster is tributed instead. It is not the same as controlling the other monster. So, I cannot offer my monster to count as 2 tribute because that monster only has one soul (an exchanged one). If I tribute my monster, the opponent's monster will be tributed instead, but I cannot count him for the second tribute because I already tried to tribute him in the first place. Thus he cannot be counted for 2 tributes!

Does this makes sense?

 

[densetsu_x]

It vaguely makes sense but it also is sounding like your opponent is reading into the card as if it were being shown on the anime (and yes I know how they use the card on the anime as well which was even more wrong) :wink:

No you do not gain control of your opponent's monster when you play "Soul Exchange". You simply are allowed to offer it as a tribute for anything that you need a tribute for. Ironically as well, the card made more sense before the errata.

But short of the mailing list, I can always direct this to the person who usually knows the official answer on these things if you want a more "official" answer...

Dlanaan? Your thoughts?

- A

 

[somewan]

Thanks for the replies and I agree with you guys, but this is where my opponent's argument is:

So, I cannot offer my monster to count as 2 tribute because that monster only has one soul (an exchanged one). If I tribute my monster, the opponent's monster will be tributed instead, but I cannot count him for the second tribute because I already tried to tribute him in the first place. Thus he cannot be counted for 2 tributes!

What makes your opponent think if you try to tribute a monster once that you can't do it for a second tribute if it's still on the field?  Kaiser Seahorse and Double Coston both count as 2 tributes; would Soul Exchange count as well?

Regardless of understanding their logic...

If you have no monsters on the field, you can Soul Exchange one of their monsters for a tribute summon (or set).
If you have one monster on the field, you can Soul Exchange one of their monsters for a greater than 6 Star Tribute summon/set.

Those are the rules, that's the way the card works.

Whether or not they understand or agree with them doesn't change their rules (unless they're UDE...).
I'm sure many of us have some rules we don't understand but have to accept...

Well, Raigekick, good luck with your opponent...

 

[Raigekick]

What makes your opponent think if you try to tribute a monster once that you can't do it for a second tribute if it's still on the field? Kaiser Seahorse and Double Coston both count as 2 tributes; would Soul Exchange count as well?

Well, Kaiser Seahorse and Double Coston are both effect monsters that says you can tribute them for a two tribute monster. I don't think its the same as tributing them twice.

If you have no monsters on the field, you can Soul Exchange one of their monsters for a tribute summon (or set).
If you have one monster on the field, you can Soul Exchange one of their monsters for a >6 Star Tribute summon/set.

Those are the rules, that's the way the card works.

Whether or not they understand or agree with them doesn't change their rules (unless they're UDE...).
I'm sure many of us have some rules we don't understand but have to accept...

Well, Raigekick, good luck with your opponent...

Well, they're kinda using that rule now. They (and I) just wish they change the card's text to: "Select 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field. You can tribute that monster for this turn. During this turn, you cannot conduct your Battle Phase." and get rid of "When you offer your monster as a Tribute, offer the selected monster in place of 1 of your monsters" This phrase just does not conform with the current ruling.

 

[Dlanaan]

What makes your opponent think if you try to tribute a monster once that you can't do it for a second tribute if it's still on the field?  Kaiser Seahorse and Double Coston both count as 2 tributes; would Soul Exchange count as well?

Whether Kaiser Seahorse being Tributed via Soul Exchange is legal I think is still being checked (or was forgotten about). I think it was unclear whether you can use the effect of the opponent's card if you Tribute it via Soul Exchange (since you never actually control it). And since you are not the 'you' that Kaiser Seahorse mentions (since it is still under the control of the opponent and thus the opponent is 'you') you probably cannot, unless it was just a careless translation error.

 

[magic-snake]

well this has been a most interesting read. i always was under the impression that soul exchange needed you to have a monster or 2 for tributing to use its effect. because of the card text. im definatly going to have to add this to my "why not to trust card texts" list. im pretty sure no judge will let you get away with using the card the correct way because of its text

 

[masterwoo0]

If you have no monsters on the field, you can Soul Exchange one of their monsters for a tribute summon (or set).
If you have one monster on the field, you can Soul Exchange one of their monsters for a >6 Star Tribute summon/set.




Somewan, I agree with everything you posted, and I just have a small issue. Im sure that most of the general public knows what "><=" signs mean, but in this case, so there is no doubt that you are "clearly" saying that you can use 1 Soul Exchange to tribute 2 monsters (one of yours, one of theirs), would it be possible to change your symbol to the actual "word"...?

 

[somewan]

Somewan, I agree with everything you posted, and I just have a small issue.  Im sure that most of the general public knows what "><=" signs mean, but in this case, so there is no doubt that you are "clearly" saying that you can use 1 Soul Exchange to tribute 2 monsters (one of yours, one of theirs), would it be possible to change your symbol to the actual "word"...?

Fair enough...

I've edited my original post.

And a quick math lesson with alligators...

< less than
> greater than