Sacred Phoenix and Timing

[HorusMaster]

If my Sacred Phoenix is destroyed by a card effect and sent to the graveyard, I can special summon it during my next Standby Phase. But what is the ruling if during my Standby Phase, I forget to special summon it from the graveyard? Have I missed the timing or can I special summon it the following Standby Phase (actual 2nd Standby after being destroyed)?

 

[Oceanus]

Actually its Special Summon is not optional, which means you don't have a choice whether you want to summon it or not... Not doing so is like cheating, or a misplay at least =P It's something probably you and your opponent will have to decide what to do on, as it's not good to get the judges into those things, bad things happen.

 

[chocoman]

what if phoenix is summoned in the stanby phase, can you activate bottomless traphole or have you missed the timing because of phoenix' second effect?
If you miss the timing on phoenix, is it correct to say that you woudn't miss the timing on a vampire lord?

 

[Digital Jedi]

Bottomless Trap Hole doesn't miss timing like that. When Phoenix is summoned her effect triggers and is placed on the chain. An unresolved effect is not an event like a summon is, because what you have here is an effect that is still in limbo. Nothings happened yet. The last thing to happen is still a summon. You can activate Bottomless Trap Hole, in response to the summon, and in chain to Phoenix's effect.

Discarded Dark World Monsters might be where your getting confused, but they summon in an odd manner. They have two effects resolving within a single chain link, and the summon occurs first within that link. It's an oddball way for an effect to resolve, but since it does resolve this way, you have a problem with Bottomless' timing.

The summon and the discard/destroy of the Dark Worlder all happen within a single link resolution. In order for Bottomless to be able to respond to a Special Summon, it has to wait for the effect doing the Special Summoning to resolve. Since another effect is tied up in this resolving effect (and for that matter is happening last within that effect) then the last thing to happen was the discard/destroy effect of the Dark Worlder, not the summon so the timing for summon responders like Bottomless is interupted.

 

[HorusMaster]

Still, the question is....if Phoenix is not special summoned the Standby Phase after it is destroyed by a card effect, can it be special summoned the phase after the next Standby or it the timing missed? I understand about the game foul but what happens to Phoenix if the special summon is overlooked after the Standby Phase?
Let's say I missed the timing on the Standby Phase to special summon Phoenix. During one of my Main Phases I realize that I forgot to special summon Phoenix during the Standby Phase. I tell my opponent that I missed the timing for the summon. My opponent also realizes it but tells me that I'm too late on the summon and that Phoenix remains in the graveyard for the rest of the duel since I missed the timing. Is this true?

 

[John Danker]

The special summon by it's own effect from the graveyard isn't an optional effect, it's madatory.

 

[Oceanus]

Actually its Special Summon is not optional, which means you don't have a choice whether you want to summon it or not... Not doing so is like cheating, or a misplay at least =P It's something probably you and your opponent will have to decide what to do on, as it's not good to get the judges into those things, bad things happen.

Pretty much all you need to know. It's between you and your opponent to decide what to do. Anyway, it involves nothing about "Missing the Timing". There's no official way to fix it, and if you, your opponent, and a judge get into a big enough arguement, you can say bye-bye to the match.

 

[John Danker]

Opps! Sorry Oceanus, missed that you'd already stated that...as well I missed the point of his post....didn't catch that he meant if it's missed....not if it's choosen not to be special summoned.

In any case, yes, you DO want to get a judge involved in this scenario. If a misplay happens don't try and resolve it between the two players, let the judge make the call. Depending on what has transpired if a madatory effect is missed, it may be repairable, it may mean a proceedural error warning, or it could mean a game loss.....let the judge decide.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Right, your not going to get a game loss just because you forgot a Mandatory Effect. At the worst you'll get a warning, depending on the circumstances. A game loss would only be issued if you were up to shenanigans or because your creating a problem as result. Trying to fix the game state yourself (assuming your in tournament) could just make things worse.

Outside of a tournament, just try to rewind the game state back to where it should have been summoned. If your to far away from that situation, then you'd be best to let it go. Anytime you can fix the game state in casual play, you should both be willing to do so.

 

[Oceanus]

Basically, calling a judge into just will have someone else do the common sense work for you. If you really can't come to an agreement of how to solve it with the opponent... Then I suppose you can get a judge, but the judge just figures out what to be done just like the two of the duelists could have on their own, without any possibility of warnings, etc.

 

[John Danker]

I think you're missing the point here. When a misplay happens it's not FOR the players to decide between them the outcome.

Judges most often deal with such misplays on a regular basis and (at least the experienced ones) have been instructed on how to do the detective work on how to possibly fix the scenario without giving game loses. As well, if there is any doubt as to what should be done a judge should always be called.

This is the kind of scenario where after the game a player comes up to a judge and says, "Hey, I just lost my match because my opponent did such and such and told me that's how it's ruled"......at this point it's too late to do anything about it.

 

[Oceanus]

Hey, if it's a ruling question, by all means please call a judge. But why call the judge for a misplay when you can work it out between your opponent exactly as he would have, and save them the time, and you the time to keep the duel rolling. Simple mistakes like that are just fixed in a second, and we move on, at least that's how my opponent's I dueled at my last regionals played, I don't think I ever saw a misplay called on. I saw a misplay, but the players just corrected it, we don't like to prolong the inevitable I guess. (Rarely did a misplay happen anywayXD).

 

[John Danker]

Okay, lets say that in your paticular scenario there was a misplay, you saw your opponent forgot to carry out a mandatory effect (it's a regonal tournament in my hypotetical scenario) and nothing more has happened than a phase change. Simple right, you just back it up to the previous phase, the mandatory effect is applied, move on from there....no harm, no foul.....however, perhaps this is the 5th time in the last 3 matches that paticular player has attempted to not follow through with a mandatory effect this tournament, you don't know the contents of his / her hand do you? Was there a motive than was less than honorable involved? Was it intentional? You're assuming that it isn't (I tend to be overly trusting as well mind you)

Such things judges need to be alerted to. If this player has often "forgotten" to carry out a mandatory effect the judges want to issue the warning so that when it happens again we see a pattern developing and can keep an eye on this person for the rest of the tournament. Perhaps it's just forgetfulness, fair enough, we'll try and keep an eye on this person to remind them so it DOESN'T get to an irrepairable game state in the future, if it looks as though he's trying to get away with something (unbenounced to you) we'll do what we can to catch them in the act.

What may SEEM harmless isn't necessarily so. There may be more to the story than you realize. That's what I was talking about in my initial reply....the detective work that you as a player aren't allowed to do, haven't the resources, time, or information to do.

 

[Oceanus]

Sounds good.