SEGOC vs. Divine Wrath

[Raigekick]

1. SEGOC question:
Player A has f/d Man Eater Bug and f/d Magician of Faith
Player B has f/d Night Assailant and f/d Mask of Darkness

Player A is the turn player.
Player A activates Swords of Revealing Light.

Question: Is this how SEGOC works:
Player A is Chain Link 1 (Player A can select which of his/her monster will go here), then
Player B is Chain Link 2 (Player B can select which of his/her monster will go here), then
Player A is Chain Link 3, (Player A's remaining monster here) then
Player B is Chain Link 4 (Player B's remaining monster here) ?


2. SEGOC vs Divine Wrath:
Player A has f/d Magician of Faith and set Divine Wrath for more than 1 turn.
Player B has f/d Mask of Darkness and set Divine Wrath for more than 1 turn.

Player A is the turn player.
Player A activates Swords of Revealing Light

Question: SEGOC states that MoF must be Chain Link 1 and MoD is Chain Link 2. Player A can activate his/her Divine Wrath against MoD's effect. Is Player B allowed to activate his/her Divine Wrath against MoF, or is he/she out of luck because of SEGOC timing issue?


3. D.D. Warrior Lady vs. Flip Effect monster:

D.D. Warrior Lady attacks a f/d Man Eater Bug.

Question: Is this a SEGOC situation? Does the controller of D.D. Warrior Lady has to decide first if he/she wants to use her effect, and if he/she passes, he/she won't get a second chance to add her effect in Chain Link 2?

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

1. SEGOC question:
Player A has f/d Man Eater Bug and f/d Magician of Faith
Player B has f/d Night Assailant and f/d Mask of Darkness

Player A is the turn player.
Player A activates Swords of Revealing Light.

Question: Is this how SEGOC works:
Player A is Chain Link 1 (Player A can select which of his/her monster will go here), then
Player B is Chain Link 2 (Player B can select which of his/her monster will go here), then
Player A is Chain Link 3, (Player A's remaining monster here) then
Player B is Chain Link 4 (Player B's remaining monster here) ?




The problem here is that Player A activated Swords of Revealing Light, it only effects Player B, Player A's monsters wouldn't flip face-up.

 

[novastar]

1.) Question: Is this how SEGOC works:
Player A is Chain Link 1 (Player A can select which of his/her monster will go here), then
Player B is Chain Link 2 (Player B can select which of his/her monster will go here), then
Player A is Chain Link 3, (Player A's remaining monster here) then
Player B is Chain Link 4 (Player B's remaining monster here) ?

All of Player A's triggers would be placed first (in the order Player A wants), then Player B's (in the order Player B wants).

[Chain Link 1] Player A's effect
[Chain Link 2] Player A's effect
[Chain Link 3] Player B's effect
[Chain Link 4] Player B's effect

2.) Question: SEGOC states that MoF must be Chain Link 1 and MoD is Chain Link 2. Player A can activate his/her Divine Wrath against MoD's effect. Is Player B allowed to activate his/her Divine Wrath against MoF, or is he/she out of luck because of SEGOC timing issue?

All triggers are placed on the Chain Block prior to the Turn Player recieving priority. By the time priority is recived and due to the fact that Counter Traps must be played in direct response Player B would NOT be able to activate Divine Wrath in response to MoF's activation.

3.) Question: Is this a SEGOC situation? Does the controller of D.D. Warrior Lady has to decide first if he/she wants to use her effect, and if he/she passes, he/she won't get a second chance to add her effect in Chain Link 2?

Yes, DD Warrior Lady's effect is an Optional Trigger. Since the controller of DD is the Turn Player he/she would decide whether to activate or not, and then MEB's effect would be placed on the Chain Block. The Turn Player gets one opportunity to choose, before MEB's effect is placed..

Hope that helps

EDIT: StRiKe_NiNjA is correct Swords would only cause the opponent's monsters to flip. However, in the event of an effect that causes all face-down's to flip and allowing the "FLIP:" effects to activate, the order would be in the way i presented.

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

1. SEGOC question:
2. SEGOC vs Divine Wrath:
Player A has f/d Magician of Faith and set Divine Wrath for more than 1 turn.
Player B has f/d Mask of Darkness and set Divine Wrath for more than 1 turn.

Player A is the turn player.
Player A activates Swords of Revealing Light

Question: SEGOC states that MoF must be Chain Link 1 and MoD is Chain Link 2. Player A can activate his/her Divine Wrath against MoD's effect. Is Player B allowed to activate his/her Divine Wrath against MoF, or is he/she out of luck because of SEGOC timing issue?




Swords of Revealing Light only effects your opponent's monsters, thus, flipping them face-up and not Player A's monsters.

 

[novastar]

For questions 1 and 2, we could say that 2 Desert Sunlight's were played, one by each player, in chain to each other. This would flip all face down's face up, and would start a new chain containing all the triggers at once.

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

1. SEGOC question:
3. D.D. Warrior Lady vs. Flip Effect monster:

D.D. Warrior Lady attacks a f/d Man Eater Bug.

Question: Is this a SEGOC situation? Does the controller of D.D. Warrior Lady has to decide first if he/she wants to use her effect, and if he/she passes, he/she won't get a second chance to add her effect in Chain Link 2?

This goes 2 ways, but, I'm still waiting for my answer, so I maybe wrong.

If the controller wishes NOT to use the effect of D. D. Warrior Lady, he/she lost his/her chance to use the effect to remove. Man-Eater Bug resolves and destroys D. D. Warrior Lady.

If the controller wishes to pass priority so the opposing player giving him a chance to resolve his effect FIRST, then the opposing player may do so. Then the controller of D. D. Warrior Lady can use the effect to remove itself and the monster.

 

[novastar]

If the controller wishes to pass priority so the opposing player giving him a chance to resolve his effect FIRST, then the opposing player may do so. The D. D. Warrior Lady can use the effect to remove itself and the monster.

This does not work this way...because we are dealing with Triggers. There is no choice here...its not like the Standby or End Phase.

The Turn Player decides to activate DD or not, then MEB is placed second. MEB is either Chain Link 1 or 2 depending on whether DD was activated or not. The Turn Player cannot allow MEB to resolve first.

EDIT: maybe i read that wrong, Optional Triggers are a choice to activate, not a choice to resolve. So you choose whether to activate as the chain is building.

 

[Raigekick]

Swords of Revealing Light only effects your opponent's monsters, thus, flipping them face-up and not Player A's monsters.

LOL....Yeah, I forgot about that....LOL....I feel such an idiot. OK, then lets change all of the monsters to 2 Witch of the Black Forrest and 2 Sangan. Then Player A activates Dark Hole.


StRiKe_NiNjA, I had to ask the question on a separate thread because the other thread has a different topic.


novastar, thanks for the reply. If you don't mind, can you point me to the ruling on question #1. The Advance Gameplay's examples only talks about 2 monsters in SEGOC.

 

[krazykidpsx]

the first 2 cant happen because it was swords which was played only 1 side gets its flips.

if it was desert sunlight, then first thing is first. last one to add desert sunlight gets his stuff first, because theirs would resolve.

you dont add 2 effects to another chain. you have to wait till the thing finishes, i was never positive if you still get the effect, it may work like this.

player be does his flips, then player a does his flips, since you no longer can add to in beetween the chain then you cant devine wrath anything. cause the chain is currently resolving.

not sure though how it would work, since ive never had to deal with that situation.

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

It isn't actually possible for you and your opponent to decide what will trigger first if both Player's effects trigger? I never knew that. So this must I'm wrong.... Nooo... all those posts, replies, and my answers were useless. lol (brain shuts down)

i got another question though, about DDwL. novastar, isn't D. D. Warrior Lady a Cost Effect?

So if Player A wishes to use D. D. Warrior Lady's effect, wouldn't it be removed before Man-Eater Bug could destroy it becuz DDwL is a cost effect?

 

[krazykidpsx]

ddwl isnt a cost effect, its an ignition effect. lmao!

and yes ddwl can remove man eater before it destroyes her since ddwl's effect is right after damage calculation.

 

[novastar]

If only one player has simultaneous effects being activated, then that player can choose the order in which they resolve.

If both players have simultaneous effects being activated, then the "turn player" (the player taking his/her turn) automatically has his/her effect become Step 1 of the chain. The turn player has no choice but to be Step 1 of the chain, although if he/she has multiple effects being activated, he/she does choose which of those effects is Step 1.

If you combine those two statements and extrapolate you will see that;

1.) When a player has multiple Triggers being chained at the same time that player chooses the order in which their Triggers are placed on the chain

2.) When both players have Triggers at the same time, the Turn Player's go first, the Opponent's second, and using the first statement, each players chooses the order of their own effects.

I will see if i can find more.

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

We all make mistakes, Raigekick lol

Can anyone explain why my Strike Ninja and my opponent's Dark Necrofear isn't a SEGOC type of chain?

From what Iv'e been replying this is what my answer has been based on.

My Strike Ninja is currently removed from play, but, it will return to the field at the End Phase. Also, Iv'e destroyed my opponent's Dark Necrofear which is due to return at the End Phase as well.

Priority can be passed here. I can ask my opponent if he/she wishes to resolve the effect of Dark Necroefear first before my Strike Ninja returns to the field.

Thats why Iv'e always thought priority can be passed to resolve what effects in a SEGOC type of chain, such as D. D. Warrior Lady vs Fiber Jar.

 

[novastar]

It isn't actually possible for you and your opponent to decide what will trigger first if both Player's effects trigger? I never knew that. So this must I'm wrong.... Nooo... all those posts, replies, and my answers were useless. lol (brain shuts down)

i got another question though, about DDwL. novastar, isn't D. D. Warrior Lady a Cost Effect?

So if Player A wishes to use D. D. Warrior Lady's effect, wouldn't it be removed before Man-Eater Bug could destroy it becuz DDwL is a cost effect?

First, 2 Desert Sunlights would absolutely work. They both resolve flipping the monsters, and then all of the Triggers are placed on the chain afterwords at the same time.

Second, DDwl's effect is an Optional Trigger, you manually activate it, but it is triggered by an attack, and then you choose to activate. Just like ANY other Optional Trigger.

Thirdly, here's what it would look like;

~Damage Calculation ends

TP : Do you wish to activate DDwl? ...yes

[TP Chain Link 1] DD Warrior Lady
[OP Chain Link 2] MEB

resolve....

MEB destroys DDwl, and she is sent to the grave, and MEB is removed.

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

novastar, what i meant was simultaneous effects that trigger in the damage step. but, i can see things better from your posts and it actually makes more sense than mine does. but what about effects like strike ininja and dark necrofear?

and to Raigekick... what???!?!?! DDwL effect isn't a cost effect??!? aint it acost to remove DDwL In order to remove the other monster?!?!

i never knew that

 

[novastar]

We all make mistakes, Raigekick lol

Can anyone explain why my Strike Ninja and my opponent's Dark Necrofear isn't a SEGOC type of chain?

From what Iv'e been replying this is what my answer has been based on.

My Strike Ninja is currently removed from play, but, it will return to the field at the End Phase. Also, Iv'e destroyed my opponent's Dark Necrofear which is due to return at the End Phase as well.

Priority can be passed here. I can ask my opponent if he/she wishes to resolve the effect of Dark Necroefear first before my Strike Ninja returns to the field.

Thats why Iv'e always thought priority can be passed to resolve what effects in a SEGOC type of chain, such as D. D. Warrior Lady vs Fiber Jar.

The Standby and End Phase work differently...each effect that triggers in these Phases starts its OWN chain, so what you are really doing is choosing the order of the chains, NOT placing them all on the chain at once.

 

[Raigekick]

and to Raigekick... what???!?!?! DDwL effect isn't a cost effect??!? aint it acost to remove DDwL In order to remove the other monster?!?!

I think you are pertaining to krazykidpsx.

But krazykidpsx is also incorrect. DDWL is an Optional Trigger that can work on you or your opponent's turn.

 

[Raigekick]

First, 2 Desert Sunlights would absolutely work. They both resolve flipping the monsters, and then all of the Triggers are placed on the chain afterwords at the same time.

Would this really work? The way I see it is that on resolution of the second Desert Sunlight (CL2), the monsters on my opponents side of the field will flip, gets into a line for waiting to start a chain. Then my Desert Sunlight (CL1) will resolve and flips my monsters, then gets into the line behind the other monsters who was in line already. Then, the first pair of monsters that was in the line first starts their separate Chain Link and resolves them. Then the last pair of monsters starts their separate Chain Link and resolves them. Does this make sense? I don't know if it is the actual game mechanic, but that is how I see it (with no ruling backup what so ever.)

 

[novastar]

Would this really work? The way I see it is that on resolution of the second Desert Sunlight (CL2), the monsters on my opponents side of the field will flip, gets into a line for waiting to start a chain. Then my Desert Sunlight (CL1) will resolve and flips my monsters, then gets into the line behind the other monsters who was in line already. Then, the first pair of monsters that was in the line first starts their separate Chain Link and resolves them. Then the last pair of monsters starts their separate Chain Link and resolves them. Does this make sense? I don't know if it is the actual game mechanic, but that is how I see it (with no ruling backup what so ever.)

Yes it would...all Triggers will be placed on the chain at the next avaliable instance.

Chain 1:

[TP Chain Link 1] Desert Sunlight
[OP Chain Link 2] Desert Sunlight

resolve...

OP's Desert Sunlight flips all of OP's monsters face-up, then TP's Desert Sunlight flips all of TP's monsters face-up. All Triggers from this chain will be placed on the chain together, in Turn Player Priority order.

Chain 2: (Chain 1 Response Chain)

[TP Chain Link 1] Flip effect
[TP Chain Link 2] Flip Effect
[OP Chain Link 3] Flip Effect
[OP Chain Link 4] Flip Effect

resolve...

Hope that helps

 

[Haphaestios]

He activated swords, he didn't attack. Therefore, ddwl's effect can't activate, due to the fact that there was no attacking. So, if you have a face up ddwl on the field, and then play Sowl while they have a face down Man Eater Bug, the bugs effect would destroy ddwl. Since there was no attack, ddwl does not get to activate her effect.

Doesnt it say on the card that the effect can only be activated after damage calculation?