Skill Drain vs Direct Attack monsters

[Gimpy]

Situation:
Player A controls 1 face-up "Raging Flame Sprite" in attack position and currently at an attack power of 3100, nothing else on field or in hand.

Player B controls 1 face-up "Goblin Attack Force", in attack pos., and 1 set "Skill Drain". Nothing else on field or in hand.

Both players have 2000 lp remaining.

Player A enters Battle Phase, and delcares and attack, using Raging Flame Sprites effect to attack Player B's Life Points directly.

In responce to the declaration of attack Player B activates Skill Drain, paying 1000 lp. Effect resolves, and Raging Flame Sprite returns to it's attack value of 100 points.

Question:
In this senario, what happens to the impending attack of Raging Flame Sprite. Having lost the effect to attack directly the declared target of the attack, (the Life Points of Player B) is no longer a valid target. Does this-
A. Cause a Replay, allowing Player A to choose a new target or not to attack at all.
B. Cause the attack to go against the only valid target on the field (Goblin Attack Force)

*Please, unless you happen to be an Upper Deck rep (or Bishop), if giving a reply it would be best if some form of documentation or reference were provided.

Jeff T.
"Gimpy"

 

[Batossai Anubis]

There is no Replay because the number of monsters on the field of the
player B does not change.

 

[soulwarrior]

It would force a replay!

There's a ruling about Amphibious Bugroth MK-3 which can be compared to this situation (at least in my eyes):

"¢ When "Umi" is on the field, and "Amphibious Bugroth MK-3" declares a direct attack, and "Umi" is destroyed during the Battle Step, "Amphibious Bugroth MK-3" can no longer attack directly, so a replay occurs.

-> It would be the same if you would activate "Skill Drain"

soul

 

[the.wise.duelist]

A replay only occurs when then monster ratio changes on your opponents side of the field or something like this problem would cause a replay since raging flame sprite can no longer attack directly. His attack just doesnt dissapear so it will have to re-attack a monster or not attack at all. So im with soulwarrior on this one and that it will cause a replay.

 

[Gimpy]

I agree that a Replay is the most lilkely result, but I couldn't think of a good correlation with other rulings. Thanks soulwarrior, the Amphibious Bugroth MK-3 does seem to compair nicely with this senario.

 

[masterwoo0]

This is definitely a timing issue and makes a even bigger case for each player to annouce their movement from each phase.

When your opponent declared that he was entering his Battle Phase, that was your opportunity to activate Skill Drain during that Phase.  Once he progresses to an actual attack, you are in the Damage Step and Skill Drain cannot be activated in the Damage Step as it does not "Specifically" modify attack or defense.  

Because it does negate the effect of Raging Flame Sprite to attack directly and the boosting effect, his attack would return to 100 (and he would start over again at 100 even if Skill Drain is later destroyed or negated), but only if activated PRIOR to your opponent declaring an attack and the attack actually being made.  EDIT: At this point, the turn player has not attacked so there is no need for a replay.

Hopefully I answered your question.

 

[n00b]

This is definitely a timing issue and makes a even bigger case for each player to annouce their movement from each phase.

When your opponent declared that he was entering his Battle Phase, that was your opportunity to activate Skill Drain during that Phase. Once he progresses to an actual attack, you are in the Damage Step and Skill Drain cannot be activated in the Damage Step as it does not "Specifically" modify attack or defense.

Because it does negate the effect of Raging Flame Sprite to attack directly and the boosting effect, his attack would return to 100 (and he would start over again at 100 even if Skill Drain is later destroyed or negated), but only if activated PRIOR to your opponent declaring an attack and the attack actually being made.

Hopefully I answered your question.

You can activate Skill Drain in the Battle Step after the attack is declared. oo

 

[masterwoo0]

This is definitely a timing issue and makes a even bigger case for each player to annouce their movement from each phase.

When your opponent declared that he was entering his Battle Phase, that was your opportunity to activate Skill Drain during that Phase.  Once he progresses to an actual attack, you are in the Damage Step and Skill Drain cannot be activated in the Damage Step as it does not "Specifically" modify attack or defense. 

Because it does negate the effect of Raging Flame Sprite to attack directly and the boosting effect, his attack would return to 100 (and he would start over again at 100 even if Skill Drain is later destroyed or negated), but only if activated PRIOR to your opponent declaring an attack and the attack actually being made.

Hopefully I answered your question.

You can activate Skill Drain in the Battle Step after the attack is declared. oo

I never said that you cant activate Skill Drain when you declare an attack.  You have to select an attacking monster and a target BEFORE you attack.  All you are doing is telling your opponent your intentions.  I said that once the attack is MADE, you are in the Damage Step and cannot activate Skill Drain.

 

[novastar]

I agree that a Replay is the most lilkely result, but I couldn't think of a good correlation with other rulings.  Thanks soulwarrior, the Amphibious Bugroth MK-3 does seem to compair nicely with this senario.

Hey Gimpy, how are you? long time no see...

Well i'm not a UDE rep, but i'm pretty sure i know the answer (99.9% ).

A replay would occur in this situation. The reason being that the number of attack targets has changed, since you were once able to declare an attack on the opponent directly, but now you cannot. Replay occurs when the number of "attack targets" changes on the opponent's side of the field, not just the number of monsters.

A good ruling to look at would be "Shooting Star Bow - Ceal"

"If a monster equipped with "Shooting Star Bow - Ceal" declares a direct attack, and "Shooting Star Bow - Ceal" is removed from the monster during the Battle Step with "Mystical Space Typhoon" or "Tailor of the Fickle", the monster is no longer capable of attacking directly and a replay occurs."

It is similar in nature...hope that helps

 

[Batossai Anubis]

Returning gameplay to a previous step and playing that step over again is known as a "Replay". For Example, if the number of your opponent's monsters on the field change due to the effect of Trap or Quick-Play Spell Cards during your Battle Step, a Replay is triggered. When this occurs, play returns to the beginning of the Battle Step with the attacker choosing a new attacking monster and target. Replays can only be triggered by the effects of Trap or Quick-Play Spell Cards.

http://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/yugioh/train4.asp

 

[Raijinili]

Returning gameplay to a previous step and playing that step over again is known as a "Replay". For Example, if the number of your opponent's monsters on the field change due to the effect of Trap or Quick-Play Spell Cards during your Battle Step, a Replay is triggered. When this occurs, play returns to the beginning of the Battle Step with the attacker choosing a new attacking monster and target. Replays can only be triggered by the effects of Trap or Quick-Play Spell Cards.

http://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/yugioh/train4.asp

That's outdated.

 

[deckmaster]

On the issue of when Skill Drain can be used in an attack, timing is everything. The battle phase goes:

Battle Step:

1. Select an attacking monster
2. Nominate a target
3. Use quick-play spell or traps

Damage Step:

4. Flip card if face down
5. Calculate damage
6. Resolve effects
7. Send destroyed monster to graveyard

Skill drain can be used at point 3. It would also negate the effects of flip effect monsters that are flipped at point 4. However, Skill Drain cannot be activated in the attack of a face down monster once the identity of that monster is known since only cards that directly modify ATK and DEF can be activated at point 5.

As to whether Skill Drain would force a replay in the circumstances raised, the rule book does not say and I would have to follow the wisdom of those who say it would. I presume, therefore, the same would apply if Skill Drain is activated in reponse to a direct attack by Servant of Catabolism etc.

 

[n00b]

As to whether Skill Drain would force a replay in the circumstances raised, the rule book does not say and I would have to follow the wisdom of those who say it would. I presume, therefore, the same would apply if Skill Drain is activated in reponse to a direct attack by Servant of Catabolism etc.

I'm pretty sure this is why it would trigger a Replay: "Skill Drain" would cause a Replay because it changes the number of legal targets for the attack. ex. Your opponent has out a "Gemini Elf" in attack mode and "Skill Drain" set. You have a "Jinzo #7" in attack mode. You attack with "Jinzo #7", and because of its effect, you can either attack "Gemini Elf" or your opponent's Life Points. You choose to attack your opponent's Life Points and your opponent responds with "Skill Drain". Because of "Skill Drain", "Jinzo #7" can no longer attack your opponent's Life Points directly. There were 2 legal targets: "Gemini Elf" and your opponent's Life Points. Now, because of "Skill Drain", there is only one. Because the number of legal targets has changed, a Replay is triggered.

 

[OKShadow]

That makes sense to me. Although unless the opponents monster is a kuriboh or a def gaf/orc/spear dragon, why attack a mon when you can do direct damage?

 

[n00b]

That makes sense to me. Although unless the opponents monster is a kuriboh or a def gaf/orc/spear dragon, why attack a mon when you can do direct damage?

I don't really know why anyone would do it. I'm sure there's a situation where it would actually be helpful, but I don't really feel like thinking up all the possible random situations. Maybe if you had just used "Waboku" and "After the Struggle", and you wanted your opponent ultra powerful...something to die. *shrug* I dunno. It really doesn't matter if it's helpful, because it's possible either way. =P

 

[Gimpy]

That makes sense to me.  Although unless the opponents monster is a kuriboh or a def gaf/orc/spear dragon, why attack a mon when you can do direct damage?

Last Turn Deck
Exodia player needing one more monster in their Graveyard to activate a set Backup Soldier
Using a Last Will card to search the deck
It's your opponent's monster (Change of Heart) and you don't want to give it back

Just a few ideas.

Anyway, the topic was well answered, thanks all for the confirmation.