Spell Absorption: Ruling Contradiction

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CerezScypher

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Spell Absorption

Each time a Spell Card is activated, increase the Life Points of this card's controller by 500 points.

1. The effect of "Spell Absorption" is applied when the Spell Card is activated. You cannot chain to this effect. The effect is applied immediately. For example, when activating "Tribute to The Doomed" while "Spell Absorption" is on the field: (1) pay the cost by discarding a card, (2) activate "Tribute to The Doomed", (3) your Life Points increase for "Spell Absorption", (4) check for chaining and resolve "Tribute to The Doomed".

2. If the activation of a Spell Card is negated by "Magic Jammer", etc., then you will not gain Life Points for "Spell Absorption".

If ruling 1 is correct, then you've already gained Life Points before Magic Jammer could even be chained, much less resolved. It should probably say to subtract the Life Points that Spell Absorption gave you for that spell.
 
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You small-minded humans... you think in 3 dimension. -- (something like that) The Borg

Time's a dimension too and can be manipulated the same as height length or depth.

If a spell card is played lifepoints are gained at that spells activation.
If Magic Jammer is player you don't gain life points at that cards activation.

Magic Jammer manipulates time. Let's say there's a laser beam (Spell Absorption) parralel to the ground and let it be this: -------- And there's an Object "|" The point where Spell Absorption increases the life points is where the laser meats the object. -----|------

Now Magic Jammer comes along and knocks over the object so you get: ----__----
There is no point where the laser hits the object. Therfore no lifepoint gain.

Magic Jammer makes a point in time cease to exist. You do not subtract life points from Magic Jammer, you eliminate them from the equation:

Current Lifepoints :X
Beginning Lifepopints = 8000
Change of Lifepoints = Yn

8000 (+/-) Y1 (+/-) Y2 (+/-) Y3 (+/-) y4 (+/-) Y5"¦ = X

8000- 1200 -1600 -400 +500 = 5300
Then Magic Jammer gets played the equation becomes:
8000 - 1200 -1600 -400 = 4800 (it does not become 8000 -1200 -1600 -400 +500 -500=)
 
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novastar said:
No, the Magic Jammer ruling is incorrect.

Spell Absorption should give you life before Magic Jammer is even a figment of our feeble 3 dimensional minds.
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You can build a hous and have the right to won property.. but can you mine that property? nope.. because you don't own the mineral rights.. your property ownership is narrowed by dimensions (technically your property is only 2 dimensions (you're alloted an Area).. but practically it does have height.) But that doesn't change that there is stuff and both sides.. its jsut not in a place where you can concern yourself with anymore.

Yes spell absorption did give life, but magic jammer moved it, and therefore that point is no longer in our grasp, therefore it didn't give life anymore.

(Keep in mind that Japanese doesn't have as many verb tenses as we do, manipulating time with words would be much easier in japanese)
 
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The life points have been gained at the spell card's activation. You wouldn't be able to take them away anymore than you don't get a refund on a cost paid (IMO)

The lp were gained before the activation of Magic Jammer / Magic Drain. The conditions were correct for Spell Absorption once the spell card was activated.
 
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CerezScypher said:
I'm following ruling 1. Here's what I mean:

My Spell Absorption is on the field face-up.
I pay the cost for Tribute to The Doomed.
I activate and select a target for Tribute to The Doomed.
Spell Absorption's continuous effect gives me 500 Life Points.
My opponent chains Magic Jammer.
Magic Jammer negates the activation and effect of Tribute to The Doomed.

ruling 2 states that I do not gain Life Points, does this mean you need to rewind and go through the chain over again without adding the 500 Life Points, or do you just subtract the 500 once Magic Jammer resolves?
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Magic Jammer would actually come between steps 2 and 3 in the first ruling. It negates the activation, so steps 3 and 4 never occur.


1. The effect of "Spell Absorption" is applied when the Spell Card is activated. You cannot chain to this effect. The effect is applied immediately. For example, when activating "Tribute to The Doomed" while "Spell Absorption" is on the field: (1) pay the cost by discarding a card, (2) activate "Tribute to The Doomed", (3) your Life Points increase for "Spell Absorption", (4) check for chaining and resolve "Tribute to The Doomed".

2. If the activation of a Spell Card is negated by "Magic Jammer", etc., then you will not gain Life Points for "Spell Absorption".
Click to expand...
 
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It for this very reason that they ruled Skilled Dark/White Magician as recieving the counter when the effect resolves. Because if Magic Jammer etc. were to negate the activation then you wouldn't recieve that counter.

If they want to rule Spell Absorption this way, then mechanically it doesn't make sense to have Magic Jammer (which would be chained afterwords) take away the life gain, since it would have already been applied by then.
 
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Warning: The Following may cause headaches"¦ do not read if you have a history of migraines or are going to be operating a motor vehicle or heavy machinery, or performing any mental task that requires a clear mind



John Danker said:
The life points have been gained at the spell card's activation. You wouldn't be able to take them away anymore than you don't get a refund on a cost paid (IMO)
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To pay the cost is to put the object is to place the object at that spot where standing it will intersect the laser. Magic Jammer knocks it down, and it is now underneath the laser.. but it's base is still in the exact same location.


Let's say you invent a time Machine in 2025, and travel back in time to 1990, and interact with yourself. Let yourself that traveled back in time be A and the one that has yet to do so be B.

B thought it was really cool to be the inventor of the time machine, but after spending 24 years with A: B decides since he already witnessed what happens in his life from A's trip through 1990-2025 B and resolves not to go back in time to meet himself, and move on with his life. So when 2025 comes around, he doesn't travel back in time.

Law of Conversation of Mass and Energy states that neither can be created out of nothing. So since the event to bring A to 1990 has not happened, and A can not be created out of nothing, A ceases to exists.. and any energy he transfered back to 1990 from 2025 will cease to exist. A cease to exist in that entire time period from 1990 to 2025.

But what about B.. will he now forget what Happened? Nope. Why not? Because although there's a lwa to state taht matter can't be created from nothing, B's memories did not come from A. B's memories were his own manipulation, made from his own energy and matter that came from the world he lived in, not the world of the future. Therefore B can remember somethng that never happend. B interacted with someone who never existed.

We can remember the lifepoint gain that never happened.
 
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Im going to say this one more time for emphasis and then Im going to get a tequil--I mean a soda.

If you use Premature Burial targting your Witch of the Black Forest and then I chan Magic Jammer to negate the activation, just because the card activated does not mean it resolved. I negated it, I made it as if it never happened. Witch never made it to the field. And even if by some stretch she did I made it as if she didn't. SO no search for her.

I keep getting the counter that if the summon took place (or similar statement) that the monster would get it's effect because it was technically on the field. If I undo the effect/summon I am rewinding time and making the effect/summon as if it never happened. Therfore the game never considered the monster to be on the field or for the effect to have talen place. This is the only way you can stop something from happening that is actually in the process of happening. I hate to be repetative, but prevention is absolutly not the meaning of negation. And if everyone (including Konami/UDE or whoever chose the termanology in the first place) continues to view negation as prevention then every instance of it's use in the game will be continue to be confusing.

Now I'm going to go get my tequila--er, uh, my soda now. Doh!
 
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Getting dizzy, no driving :eek: , anyway, Digital Jedi, you wouldn't get back the 800 LP you payed for Premature Burial, now would you, because costs cannot be refunded. Also, for the record, I have no clue how to resolve this LMAO

-chaosruler
 
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chaosruler said:
Getting dizzy, no driving :eek: , anyway, Digital Jedi, you wouldn't get back the 800 LP you payed for Premature Burial, now would you, because costs cannot be refunded. Also, for the record, I have no clue how to resolve this LMAO

-chaosruler
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Well, I stated a few times (not on this thread but elswhere where I discussed negation) that that costs where the exception. But even then, if negation meant prevention then you wouldn't even get to pay the cost in the first place. Tributing for a monster or paying a cost all happen before the negation takes place, which means some part playing the card has taken place, otherwise how would I even know it's time to negate something?
 
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I think we're all missing some key points here:
  • It's Spell Absorption's effect of increasing your life points that cannot be chained to, and not the activation of the spell card causing the increase.
  • Magic Jammer negates the activation of a spell card. Spell Absorption only gives the owner life points when a spell card is activated. So if you activate a spell, but your opponent activates Magic Jammer, that spell was never activated so no life points were gained.
I hope that helps clear things up.
 
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Jathro said:
I think we're all missing some key points here:
  • It's Spell Absorption's effect of increasing your life points that cannot be chained to, and not the activation of the spell card causing the increase.
  • Magic Jammer negates the activation of a spell card. Spell Absorption only gives the owner life points when a spell card is activated. So if you activate a spell, but your opponent activates Magic Jammer, that spell was never activated so no life points were gained.
I hope that helps clear things up.
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People have made valid points here. I think it makes sense about now. Magic Jammer's ruling is incorrect.

The moment that Spell Card was activated, the Player has already gained the increase, Magic Jammer will indeed negate the activation, but it won't "reverse" what has already taken place. We can't go back in time.

Player1: activates Pot of Greed
[Spell Absorbtion's effect has already been applied here, as it is a Continuous Effect giving Player1 the increase of 500 points]
Player2: chains Magic Jammer to negate the activation
Resolve Steps....

Magic Jammer only negates "activation" to prevent the negated Spell cards "effect"
 
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StRiKe_NiNjA said:
Magic Jammer's ruling is incorrect.

The moment that Spell Card was activated, the Player has already gained the increase, Magic Jammer will indeed negate the activation, but it won't "reverse" what has already taken place. We can't go back in time.

Magic Jammer only negates "activation" to prevent the negated Spell cards "effect"
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And I fundamentaly disagree with that. But I said that already didn't I? :D
 
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We can go back in time, it shows here:

Turn player summons Tribe infecting virus
Turn player uses his priority to activate tribe's effect.
Opponent uses solemn judgement negating the summon and in doing so nulifing the fact the effect was activated, refunding the cost.
 
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Manta said:
We can go back in time, it shows here:

Turn player summons Tribe infecting virus
Turn player uses his priority to activate tribe's effect.
Opponent uses solemn judgement negating the summon and in doing so nulifing the fact the effect was activated, refunding the cost.
Click to expand...
I don't think the cost gets refunded. I am wrong on this, guys? But other then that, yeah.
 
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Um, there's no "rewind". Here's a simple hint: Have you ever wondered why Counter-Traps MUST be activated DIRECTLY on top of the card they affect? I have... but that is a story for another time. Figure it out yourselves.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
I don't think the cost gets refunded. I am wrong on this, guys? But other then that, yeah.
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The cost doesn't get refunded because the scenario is in error. When Tribe is summoned the opponent has the opportunity to activate Horn of Heaven or Solemn Judgment or Royal Oppression at that point (before the turn player would have the opportunity to activate Tribe's effect). In the given scenario the turn player either a) summoned and immediately declared activation of effect without allowing the opponent to activate a summon negator, or b) the opponent was given that opportunity and passed it up and then tried to illegally rewind the game once it was declared that Tribe was being activated (which of course would not be the correct time to activate Solemn Judgment).
 
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Manta said:
We can go back in time, it shows here:

Turn player summons Tribe infecting virus
Turn player uses his priority to activate tribe's effect.
Opponent uses solemn judgement negating the summon and in doing so nulifing the fact the effect was activated, refunding the cost.
Click to expand...

The moment you declare a Normal Summon for Tribe-Infecting Virus, this is the correct response point for Solemn Judgment, Horn of Heaven, etc. so it wouldn't even make it to the field or get placed onto the field.
 
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