Strike Ninja- weird situations

D

Dr Sin

New Member
I've read Curtis article at metagame.com and just to clarify, let me ask about 2 situations (I think there are some points I didn't understand):

1) TP summons Strike Ninja. NTP has 2 fd s/t (trap hole and BTH). NTP responds with TH (link 1). TP decides to use Ninja's efffect (Link 2) remmoving 2 darks from grave. Then, NTP adds BTH to the chain (link 3). Can TP still use Ninja's ability as link 4, removing Ninja before BTH can resolve, despite of Ninja text states "You can only use this effect once per turn"? (I believe the answer is yes, because I think the text really means activate and resolve once per turn, but I'm not sure)

2) Same as above, but link 3 is now a Divine Wrath. Ninja can use his ability to remove himself even against this spell speed 3 effect?

Thanks in advance
 
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LOL. My congratulations for excellent use of smilies. And I always enjoy the Exchange of ideas when we debate Simon. You are so courteous and intelligent that it never seems like an argument. We're just discussing the possibilities and bringing up examples to support our sides.

And my apologies to anyone who felt insulted by my statement that Curtis' suggestion was nonsense. The mistakes I see from him and the number of people who are reading them that I'll have to spend months de-programming have a tendency to get me overly agitated. I can already see my next few weeks work at the local game shops correcting players who are absolutely sure what they are doing is legal because they read it on UDE's own site and it was written by the guy that makes such snide comments about how foolish some ruling questions are on the Judge's List. Well back to the trenches.
 
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Immediately after I read questions raised in this thread I posted the concern to the L3 list, thank you all for bringing it to the attention of those who could correct the situation.

A couple of things, first, again thanks for bringing about the change. Second, careful how hard you are on Curtis. Personally, I've made plenty of mistakes along the way and I'm sure you all have too. Just hope that others aren't as hard on you as some of you have been on Curtis. Third, you're correct of course, it should have been proof read and the mistake should have been caught, however, some things get by now and again if a couple people proof read something. Just look at the newspapers, bill boards, etc. etc.

The class thing to do is help someone who's made a mistake correct their error....and move on. We strive to be a class act here and I know that most of you are class acts as well, that's why you're here, you appreciate being in the atmosphere. I hope that you'll all show me and everyone else that class attitude.

As for UO, why would one NOT be able to pay twice in a chain for the purpose of summoning the same monster? (just curious as to the mechanics behind a negitive answer)
 
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As for UO, why would one NOT be able to pay twice in a chain for the purpose of summoning the same monster? (just curious as to the mechanics behind a negitive answer)
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Well anthonyj is thinking activation requirements.

However, the only activation requirements are that you have the 500LP to pay and at least 1 monster that can be Normal Summoned in your hand. There is no limitation like there is with Strike Ninja.

So you can activate UO say four times in a chain, with only one monster in your hand.

Unless there is some unwritten rule, which considering this is UO (LOL), there very well could be, i see nothing to prevent this.
 
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1. How many times can one use "Ultimate Offering", to summon level 4 or lower monsters, during an opponent's Battle Phase?

2. My opponent attacks and I have no monsters on my side of the field, I activate the effect of "UO" to Set "Aqua Madoor" in defense. This causes a replay. May I activate the effect again to summon "Summon Skull" before/after my opponent declares "Aqua Madoor" as a target of an attack?

Thanks.

Warren Chong, Level 1 Judge, South Africa.


---------------------------------------------------------------
Answer:

1. Multiple times, as long as you have enough Life Points to pay for it and have monsters in your hand that you can Summon.

2. You may, if you have enough Life Points to pay for the effect.

---------------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrep
CurtisSchultz_Netrep@Hotmail.com
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The bolded part of the answer was used against me as argument that you may only activate Ultimate Offering once for each monster you wish to summon. Essentially the argument was that you were declaring a summon of that specific monster when you were activating Ultimate Offering and not simply purchasing an additional opportunity to summon. The Judge I was discussing this with said it was that way so you couldn't just pay for Ultimate Offering twice with an empty field and then use one of the 2 to summon Sinister Serpent or Sangan and the second to tribute Sangan or Sinister Serpent for Jinzo or other tribute monsters. The logic was that by having to specify the monster you wouldn't be able to use Ultimate Offering to summon a monster and then tribute that same monster in the same chain. I was only trying to summon a Manju, my UO got MST'd in chain and I thought I could activate UO again chained to the MST to summon the same Manju and was told it was inelligible to be the target for the second summon.
 
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So, essentially, Ultimate Offering is a "targeting" effect, and once the monster in hand is targeted, it cant be selected again for a summon since it has already been selected once, and you must have a second target in hand to activate the effect an additional time.

I'm sure it will be argued that "monsters" does not necessarily mean more than one, but why make "monsters" a plural, if all you need is one monster to activate Ultimate Offering several times in a chain??

Makes sense. I mean, it would be like lining up monsters in a cue, and when one cue is full, the next cue would be used. You wouldnt be able to fill an additional cue with the same monster since that monster is already in a separate cue, waiting to be summoned.
 
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So, essentially, Ultimate Offering is a "targeting" effect, and once the monster in hand is targeted, it cant be selected again for a summon since it has already been selected once, and you must have a second target in hand to activate the effect an additional time.

[...]

Makes sense. I mean, it would be like lining up monsters in a cue, and when one cue is full, the next cue would be used. You wouldnt be able to fill an additional cue with the same monster since that monster is already in a separate cue, waiting to be summoned.
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No way... that completely goes against all previous logic on effects... especially if you agree that UO is targeted....

If i have 3 Offerings to the Doomed in my hand, can i target the same exact monster with all 3 cards in chain? Yes i can, and UO should be no different.

Just because it is the same monster should not change anything.

I will definately argue that the ruling Curtis gave means quite simply that if you have at least 1 monster that you can Normal Summon...you can activate it as many times as you wish... regardless if it is the same monster every time.

Nothing in the text or rulings suggests otherwise.

If Curtis argues with that, then either he knows something we don't...or he was in error... period.
 
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You arent paying a cost to activate Offering to the Doomed either.

Ultimate Offering you are paying to summon a monster. Not using a monster to pay yourself to less than 1000 life points, THEN summon it.

I would agree that the effect is not targeting because if you have more than 1 monster in hand, you are not showing your opponent which card you are summoning, and you can still change your own mind up until you actually summon it, as long as it is a card that can be normal summoned.

With Inspection, as long as your opponent has one card in their hand, you can pay 500 to keep looking at it, simply because it is your opponent's hand, and it's "supposed" to be a random selection.

If you want to abuse this card, then just say so. But I dont think this card was meant to be that way at all. If you have a number of monsters in your hand, then that should be the number of times you could use it.

It's the use of a card that would destroy UO in the middle of activating the effect that is the heart of the problem.
 
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novastar said:
No way... that completely goes against all previous logic on effects... especially if you agree that UO is targeted....

If i have 3 Offerings to the Doomed in my hand, can i target the same exact monster with all 3 cards in chain? Yes i can, and UO should be no different.

Just because it is the same monster should not change anything.

I will definately argue that the ruling Curtis gave means quite simply that if you have at least 1 monster that you can Normal Summon...you can activate it as many times as you wish... regardless if it is the same monster every time.

Nothing in the text or rulings suggests otherwise.

If Curtis argues with that, then either he knows something we don't...or he was in error... period.
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UO doesn't target. You choose the monster at resolution.
 
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See Post #11 and #13 in this Chain.

I don't know if it has been posted I'm sure that everyone's already talked about it and I am at work. So I can't read the nearly 6 pages of new posts. But, I emailed, Curtis Schultz, my Post #11 and #13 and I told him I thought he was wrong on metagame.Today, I received back an email stating that the article was corrected on Friday and that he thanked me for informing him about it.

Unless, something else has changed this morning, Monday the 23rd, Strike Ninja's effect can only be put on the chain once per turn, as originally listed on the card, of "can only use this effect once per turn."
 
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Raijinili said:
UO doesn't target. You choose the monster at resolution.
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Well to be honest, they have flip-flopped on this over the course of time. The last I remember UDE ruled it as targeted... but either way shouldn't make any difference here Rai. I feel that is should be chosen at resolution as well, it just been a while since i've seen anything on this.

Whether chosen at resolution or targeted at activation... you should only require 1 monster in hand (eligable for Normal Summoning), and 500LP you can pay, to activate multiple times.

Each activation should not require a unique monster. This is not abuse, there is simply nothing in the mechanics of the card that prevents it.

What does the JERP say? i don't have the site here.
 
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Thanks...it's says the opposite of what i'm saying, if that is the case, it was done as yet another control measure on the card...

Nothing in the text or mechanics suggests that you can only activate UO as many times as you have monsters... other than the List ruling or the JERP.

I'll accept it, even though i don't see any real reason why it is that way.

However, IF you were to change the mechanics of the card, and make the 500LP payment more of a straight summoning payment, much like the tribute for a Tribute Summon... then i definately could see this... and that of course would make it a Continuous Effect not activated.
 
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drzero7 said:
IMO, the way to use Trap Hole + BTH against Strike Ninja, is like.

Strike Ninja is summoned, foe uses Trap Hole. Player removes 2 Dark monsters to remove from play Strike Ninja. At the end phase Strike Ninja is special summoned. Chain THAT to BTH. Strike Ninja can only use his effect once per turn so... yeah... (Although in my cases, it's Saku + BTH)
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Strike Ninja does not Special Summon itself back to the field from Remove From Play. It simply returns to the field, which would not be Appropriate timing for activating Bottomless Trap Hole.

So if you wanted to use Trap Hole and Bottomless Trap Hole to get the tricky Strike Ninja they would be used in the same chain. Strike Ninja is summoned, respond with Trap Hole, Strike Ninja chains with it's effect and removes two dark from the graveyard, chain with Bottomless Trap Hole. When the chain resolves Bottomless Trap Hole will destroy Strike Ninja before his effect has a chance to remove him from the field. :)
 
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