This really wrecked my self confidence :(

J

Jason_C

Banned
Ok, so I'm asked to make a ruling, and I say sure, and then he says something that tears me apart.
P1 (Sean) controls Pandemonium, and uses turn player priority to summon warrior of zera. Since summons do not use the chain, P1 retains priority, and may activate an effect. He choses to tribute Warrior of Zera to summon Mazera Deville. Lindsay (P2) is not happy. She claims that turn player priority is ONLY to ACTIVATE effects, and that inherent summoning effects NEVER ACTIVATE, therefore, she has an opportunity to Trap Hole Zera before he can be tributed. Her logic seems almost sound to me, except for one thing: YGO is an event driven game, and consists of one event after another, with priority determining who's turn it is to create an event. So, if priority cannot be used for inherent summoning effects, how does BLS ever get on the field? And if it CAN be used for that, doesn't this seem potentially quite abusable? As though, if it had been Archlord Zerato instead of Mazera, Lindsay never would've had an opportunity to save her monsters?
Like I said, I was really torn here. Eventually I ruled in favor of Sean, but... I dunno.
-pssvr
 
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Priority does give the turn player the right to set things in motion, but it doesn't give them a blanket effect to run amok on the game. The opponent always gets a chance to respond to events that are occuring, minus a few chance scenarios where their opportunity is "bumped out."

In the Mazera scenario, the turn player does have priority, but they do not have the right to perform another summon until the opponent has had a chance to respond to the initial one. Similarly, if you tribute summon a Summoned Skull, your opponent has the right to respond to this summoning before you play Metamorphosis to morph it into a Fiend Skull Dragon or something similar.

As for your self-confidence, don't let it get you down too much. Heck, I'm a level 2 now and I messed something up earlier this morning in another thread! 8^D It's all about continuing to grow and you're bound to forget things along the way. You can't be perfect in these matters and its more how you deal with it that counts.
 
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Thank you both. I'll reply to each here:
finaldragons - I'm about 99% positive that's not correct. If I have Cannon Soldier, and I summon Sinister Serpent, I can tribute serpent for soldier before the opponent can activate Eatgaboon (as if that scenario will ever occur :/)
Dillie-O - Everything you just said seems right, but I ruled in favor of Sean simply because I couldn't come up with a mechanical reason for it. Your example with Summoned Skull and Meta is comparable, but not quite the same. Why? Because Metamorphosis is a spell speed one spell card, while Mazera is a spell speed one MONSTER EFFECT. It makes a difference. So, while everything you just said was true, sir, I'm afraid that either I've missed something, or we still haven't a mechanical reason for this.
-pssvr
 
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Ahh, I see where you're coming from now. Mazera's summoning isn't an effect, its a summoning condition. It requires Pandemoniun on the field Warrior of Zera as a tribute. You still consider it the process for going through a summon, to which there is no "Effect" to activate to special summon Mazera. You don't "activate" BLS-EotB's effect to special summon him to the field, you perform a special summon by removing the light and dark from play.

In this case then, I fall back to what I said before. Your opponent has the right to respond to the normal summoning of Zera before continuing. There is not added effects to activate at this point that priority would allow you to activate first.

Make sense?
 
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Ok, so let me take a crack at this...lol
pssvr said:
P1 (Sean) controls Pandemonium, and uses turn player priority to summon Warrior of Zera.
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Ok, we'll stop right there. This doesn't exist. Turn Player Priority does not give the Turn Player the ability to summon a monster 1st. It simply means the Turn Player retains the right to respond to events 1st.
pssvr said:
Since summons do not use the chain, P1 retains priority, and may activate an effect.
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Correct! However, the effects that can be activated at this point can only be Ignition Effects from monsters currently face-up on the Turn Player's side of the field, or Spell Speed 2 or 3 Spell/Trap cards. The turn Player cannot activate Spell Speed 1 effects from the hand. So at this point, if P1 does not have a valid effect to activate, they must pass Priority to the opponent, who can then respond to the Summon Appropriately.
pssvr said:
Lindsay (P2) is not happy. She claims that turn player priority is ONLY to ACTIVATE effects, and that inherent summoning effects NEVER ACTIVATE, therefore, she has an opportunity to Trap Hole Zera before he can be tributed.
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And she would be correct!
pssvr said:
Her logic seems almost sound to me, except for one thing: YGO is an event driven game, and consists of one event after another, with priority determining who's turn it is to create an event.
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See my explanation above..lol.
pssvr said:
So, if priority cannot be used for inherent summoning effects, how does BLS ever get on the field?
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It's still a Summon. Just because you have to remove monsters from play to Special Summon it, it's still coming from your hand, just as a Normal Summon would. It's a basic game mechanic of each player to be able to Summon a monster.
pssvr said:
As though, if it had been Archlord Zerato instead of Mazera, Lindsay never would've had an opportunity to save her monsters?
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It would have been the exact same scenario. Both monsters require something in order to be Special Summoned from the hand. The monster on the field is NOT activating an effect that brings the monster from the hand or deck to the field.
pssvr said:
Like I said, I was really torn here. Eventually I ruled in favor of Sean, but... I dunno.
-pssvr
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Unfortunately, that was incorrect. She was correct...this time!..;)
 
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No, it's not your english, I understood what you said. What I'm saying is that if I ALREADY HAVE A Cannon Soldier on the field, and summon a new monster, I can use priority to sac the NEW monster for the effect of the OLD Cannon Soldier. So in other words, the monster summoned does not have to be the one whose effect you use.
-pssvr
 
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skey23 said:
Turn Player Priority does not give the Turn Player the ability to summon a monster 1st. It simply means the Turn Player retains the right to respond to events 1st.
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I LOVE that! That makes so much more sense when put in those terms. It also includes the reasons why you can't activate Metamorphosis first after summoning your monster (like the example I had before).
 
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yes I understand that if you got already a Cannon Soldier on the field you can tribute the monster for damage
but a Warrior of Zera does not have the effect of special summoning mazera devill that effect only exist on mazera it self
summon warrior
chain link 1 Trap Hole
there while be no link 2
because you can't chain with speed 1 on a speed 2

hope this helps
 
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And THAT, my friends (I hope you guys R my friends) is where the issue lies! I was trying to say that, but didn't know how. Excellent, Skey, you have allowed me to continue this debate! Ok, here we go:

Ok, we'll stop right there. This doesn't exist. Turn Player Priority does not give the Turn Player the ability to summon a monster 1st. It simply means the Turn Player retains the right to respond to events 1st.

Alright, that's where I'm hung up. See, the reason you still have priority after a summon is because you had priority BEFORE the summon, and summons don't pass priority, so the ball stays in your court. Now, that means that you have to have priority in order to summon a monster. You can't summon when the opponent has priority, can you? Because YGO is an event driven game, the ball is always in one court or the other, it is always ONE, AND ONLY ONE person's opportunity to play. So, since Sean had priority before the summon, he also had it after the summon, and I still can't quite see why she would get to respond before another summon occurs.
-pssvr
EDIT: I hear John Danker headed this way...
 
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oke uhmzz explaination coming up

what if i summon Cyber Dragon?
and sac if for Jinzo do you still get to chain Trap Hole?
yes you do
because it's not in the same action

first you summon you can use prior on a monster thats on your field
then your opponent can respond

and he/she activates Trap Hole

but with Warrior of Zera there is no prior to take
because the monster it self does not have an effect you can use

it's mazera devill that say's tribute a Warrior of Zera on your field to special summon this monster

so Warrior of Zera is summond
you cannont use your prior on Warrior of Zera because it has no effect
and Trap Hole is activited there while be no more Warrior of Zera to tribute for mazerra deville
 
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Everything you said there pssvr is correct...however, once that summon happens, and if the turn player decides after the summon to not take advantage of their priority with a ignition effect or a spell speed 2 or higher effect, then they have passed their priority and the non-turn player may respond to the summon.
 
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John Danker said:
Everything you said there pssvr is correct...however, once that summon happens, and if the turn player decides after the summon to not take advantage of their priority with a ignition effect or a spell speed 2 or higher effect, then they have passed their priority and the non-turn player may respond to the summon.
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So are you saying my ruling was right? Or is Mazera NOT an ignition effect?
-pssvr
 
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