Timing Breakdown Questions

D

DarkLogicianOfCaos

Eschew Obfuscation
When a card has a Mandatory Trigger Effect and it is Triggered in the middle of a chain, I know that it waits for the current chain/card to finish resolving before it "starts a new chain", but is that when the card Activates (does it wait to Activate), or does it Activate in the middle of the resolving chain and simply wait to start a chain. I'm thinking in terms of Cards that say, if X is not the case, this card cannot activate, in which the X will be the case when the current chain/card is finished resolving, but is not the case when the Trigger goes off.

Also, the fixed ruling on Jinzo and Call reads almost as if Call is not going to the Graveyard at the exact same time as Jinzo, but rather, as Jinzo is leaving the Field and heading to wherever, it the continuous effect of Call goes off Destroying itself. That being so, what happens when Call or Pre- (let's stick with Pre- for now) is equipped to a Crystal Beast Monster, taking up the 5th S/T spot and said Crystal Beast is destroyed? The two Continuous effects don't form a chain. Theoretically, Crystal Beast must head to the Graveyard or S/T Zone BEFORE Pre- follows to the GY, but YGO does not always follow conventional wisdom. What says the community?
 
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The effect is triggered in the middle of the chain. It does not activate until the chain is finished resolving.

"Premature Burial" doesn't get destroyed until the monster leaves the field. Since the Crystal Beast is still on the field when you make the decision on where to send it, you would not be able to choose to crystallize it since the Spell/Trap Zones are all full.
 
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can you give some examples of what you are talking about
with the mandatory and non mandaroty in the middle of a chian

also what was that question with jinzo and call of haunt? if jinoz is destroyed in battle when he has call of the haunt equipped does call get destroyed? if not why?
 
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mikoal said:
can you give some examples of what you are talking about
with the mandatory and non mandaroty in the middle of a chian

also what was that question with jinzo and call of haunt? if jinoz is destroyed in battle when he has call of the haunt equipped does call get destroyed? if not why?
Click to expand...

I have the same exact questions as mikoal... please illuminate.
 
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Sure: You Tribute for Mobius and designate one of your opponent's Face-Down S/Ts. Your opponent chains it--MST Targetting your F/D S/T, you chain it--Call of the Haunted, Targeting Sangan. End; Resolve. Call brings Sangan, MST Destroys Call, sending it (and Sangan) to the Graveyard, Manditorily Triggering Sangan's effect (but it must wait), Mobius Destroys the already spent MST, sending it to the Graveyard. Now Sangan Starts a new chain. Resolve, bring 1500 or less Monster-Deck to Hand.

Non-Manditory: During the aforementioned turn, you also have Card of Safe Return F/U on the Field. When Sangan comes to the Field, it would really like for you to activate it's effect, but you may not, because you are still resolving a chain, so it must wait, but when the chain is up, CoSR cannot activate, because it's option was up when Sangan hit the Field. Sangan hitting the Field must be the last thing to occur for its optional effect.

Where this comes into play is (for example): Durring his Battle Phase, after just having lost his attack position Monster to Newdoria, your opponent Activates Call of the Haunted to bring out Jinzo. This is Bad news for you, so you chain your F/U Ultimate Offering to Tribute your only remaining Card and bring out Zaborg. Now, IF Zaborg's effect Triggered and activated now (waiting to Start a chain later) he would only have himself to target. However, SINCE Zaborg's effect Triggers, but waits to Activate until the chain resolves, then he can target your your Jinzo, at that time. So, resolve chain...Zaborg is Tribute Summoned, (his effect is Triggered, but waits to activate), Call resolves Briging Jinzo on the Field to Negate any further activation of your Ultimate Offering. Zaborg's effect activates, starting a new chain, resolving to Destroy Jinzo, sending both him and Call of the Haunted to the Graveyard (see below).

Jinzo & Call: It used to be that when Call was attached to Jinzo and Jinzo was destroyed, Call would stay, because it was being negated when Jinzo left the Field. That is no longer the ruling. Now, if Jinzo dies, Call goes too.
 
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so im guessing during zaborg's activation is where you select the target?? thats interesting trigger vs activation

as for Call and jinzo, why would call stay on if jinzo get killed by lets say summoned skull??

i always played it ...wrong i guess.....i got rid of CoH when jinzo died, because he's no longer on the field to negate it?
 
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mikoal said:
so im guessing during zaborg's activation is where you select the target?? thats interesting trigger vs activation

as for Call and jinzo, why would call stay on if jinzo get killed by lets say summoned skull??

i always played it ...wrong i guess.....i got rid of CoH when jinzo died, because he's no longer on the field to negate it?
Click to expand...
Ah, but he is on the field ... until he isn't. ;)

Jinzo's Continuous Effect is active for as long as he's on the field. It can't register's Jinzo's destruction, because Jinzo is still on the field negating it during his destruction. And once he leaves the field it's too late for Call to register the destruction.

Think of it like this. Call of the Haunted has eyes and watches the monster he's attached to closely. As soon as he sees the monster destroyed, he destroys himself.

But Jinzo says, "As long as I'm around, your eyes are closed. And they stay closed until I leave the field"

So if Jinzo is destroyed while Calls eyes are closed, Call doesn't see it. He can't open his eyes until Jinzo is gone. So since his "eyes" never witnessed Jinzo's destruction, he won't destroy himself.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Are you sure about that? http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/op/community/forums/thread/783370.aspx
Click to expand...

That was the old way... check the reversal here:
http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/community/forums/thread/838325.aspx

This is what I was refering to. Used to be Call would stay, it no longer does. I believe the reasoning is this:

the rule of continuous effects is--the effect stays until the card is destroyed, then it shuts off. Note: the card may still be on the field while "destroyed" awaiting to be sent to the graveyard. During this time, the effect of Call of the Haunted which self destructs is valid again (opens its eyes) and "notices" that the Monster it is (still) targeting is now destroyed and about to be sent to the Graveyard, so it imediately self destructs. Jinzo is sent to the Graveyard and Call follows on its heels.
 
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sorry can you clarify that for me?

at first ppl thought that call of the haunt wont be destryoed, because during Jinzo's destruction, its negating coth,

so now.. im just curious and probably way off base what happens when

Player A uses CoTH on card trooper
Player B then PLAYS (not chain) royal decree, summons mystic tomato, succesfully destroys card trooper
Player A actiavtes MST on decree after trooper has been sent to grave, what happens?
 
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Under the new ruling. After Royal Decree is destroyed, allowing trap effects on the field. Call of the Haunted will be destroyed by a game mechanic since the monster it is supposed to be targeting is no longer on the field.

I believe this updates the ruling against Spellbinding Circle as well.
 
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I have not heard that either.

To my knowledge, if the monster is destroyed or removed from the field while "Call of the Haunted" is being negated, and then later, if the effect that was negating "Call of the Haunted" is removed, then "Call of the Haunted" will remain meaninglessly on the field. It will not 'self-destruct' at this point.
 
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My bad, I should stop extrapolating. I was looking at the post DLOC had about the reversal, but I was blocked from the UDE site, so I was assuming that Call goes away later on and I shouldn't. I apologize profusely. This is precisely how we run into rulings problems at tournaments.
 
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Here is the reasoning behind the ruling.

As soon as "Jinzo" is deemed destroyed, his continuous effect is immediately 'deactivated'. At that exact same moment in time, the continuous effect of "Call of the Haunted" is 'reactivated'. It sees that "Jinzo", it's target has been destroyed, so it self destructs.

At least, that's the way it was explained to me a while back when I asked.
 
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