Totally redesigning sudden-death

D

densetsu_x

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Credit given to AtrusofKrondor for pointing me to this article. It was written by Julia Hedberg over at Metagame (who is also known as Purity here on these forums). For those who may doubt some of her credientials, Julia is a L3 YGO Judge and highly respected in the YGO community. So if she's talking about rules changes, it's safe to assume that this is coming straight from UDE itself.

http://www.metagame.com/yugioh.aspx?tabid=33&ArticleId=2756

Go read the article then come back.

You're back? Jaw hit the floor? :)

The 1 important thing to note that she really didn't mention in as much depth is the consequence of losing Round 1 and having time being called in Round 2 while you're ahead. Under the old rules, you lost the match, period. Now you have the chance to win that round and force Round 3.

Further for clarification, when she mentions that 3 more rounds will be played, she's meaning it the way Final Countdown counts rounds. So you finish your turn. Then 3 more are played. Your opponent is 1, you are 2, and then they are 3 (so in effect you are both getting 2 more cracks).

Lastly (and this is something I'd like to ask to clarify), when she mentions that during this Overtime period you cannot use your Side Deck. By that I am thinking she is meaning you cannot side deck any more cards in or out. If you had side decked cards between Rounds 1 and 2 those would stay. I'm pretty sure she's not meaning that you have to un-side deck and swap back in the original cards from before Round 1, but it is a little vague.

We should be getting the official word from UDE shortly because this is a majoy change to things. It may be a little slow because it is Nationals weekend but for anyone participating in Sanctioned Tournaments this weekend, it may be a good idea to let your head judge know about this change.
 
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So when the new ban list comes out in September, and Elma JUST SO HAPPENS to come off, does this mean that if I ran Gearfreed + Elma + Spell Absorption I'd win 2-0.

Because if this is true, then I'd have infinitie LP, and they can keep smacking me till the end of the round. THEN, because I'd have more LP, I'd win the match, AND then because I had 1 more match win, I'd win the match 2-0...

Is this basically how the new Sudden Death works?
 
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Nothing is official and they could decide to pull anything off they want to.

However, with the game mechanics as they stand today, cards that cause infinite loops are not going to come off the banned list or cards that are grossly powerful will basically have a lifetime place there.

Take your infinite life loop. Let's see. I can run 3 Gearfried. 2 Reinforcement of the Army. Hmm, 5 cracks at getting at least 1 of him right there. 3 Spell Absorption. Hmm, just the 1 Dagger but look... 3 Iron Blacksmith Kotetsu to search it out. A few stall cards. Couple of Giant Trunade and our 1 Heavy Storm. Maybe a Cyber Jar and Morphing Jar to help speed through the deck. Oh yeah, real hard to pull that off.

So unless the mechanics change (or some other radical cards are banned which I don't see happenning), Butterfly Dagger - Elma... go take your seat between the Lightning Bolt and the Pigeon and enjoy your stay.
 
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This just makes things more complex for judges IMO. The one part I don't agree with as far as everything goes is the no matter what, the person with the highest life gets the game win for that game and if the other player had a game win before hand (a full game win) and the you get a win because you simply had higher life after those 3 turns were done after time was called, you should lose the match since you didn't win by the definition of the game. The definition of the game is having your opponent at 0, not having higher life, it ruins the game in that respect.

It also causes many cases to go exceedingly longer then they needed to be since that would most suredly force a game 3 where as in the old policy the match would be done right then and there. I understand they want to stop stalling, but most cases where a player is stalling/playing slow it's unintentional, this isn't going to stop many games from running to time with that in mind and it's really pointless. *Sigh* It's times like these that I'm glad I play VS... but now that I think about it, I still judge Yu-Gi-Oh! and I can see the headaches that this will present in the future.
 
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I think the Reasoning for why they made that change was to help offset someone winning Round 1 with very little time left on the clock and then deliberately stalling out the remaining time without worry about his/her current life points.

That said, while I can I agree with the change in the event of having same number of rounds won when time expired, I think this one is garbage. I get a hand advantage with Delinquent Duo only to lose because time ran out and he had more life points as a result? Real garbage.
 
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densetsu_x said:
That said, while I can I agree with the change in the event of having same number of rounds won when time expired, I think this one is garbage. I get a hand advantage with Delinquent Duo only to lose because time ran out and he had more life points as a result? Real garbage.
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Ack... That is true. So how long is a regular match supposed to last anyway?
 
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This really hurt today.

It took about 20 minutes of overtime every round to work this since no one knew how to do it.

In time...we'll see what happens. Charskey said it might be changed if it doesn't work. My guess is that they will ask the judges (at Origins) for comments on this tomorrow.
 
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Well, I can already tell you from all the experience I've had with events for Star City that it's not going to work well and they need to change it while they can before it spreads. I understand that there needs to be a change, but what they currently have this weekend is ridiculous and ill-thought IMO. The point for it was to cut down time in between rounds by eliminating reasons for people to stall. Well what about the fact that half the people who play slow do so inadvertantly? It's only adding more length to the tournament and it's really going to become a pain in the neck IMO in the future at larger events, the sheer number of rounds enough makes you want to throw up sometimes when you realize you'll be there late, but to add 20 minutes in between each round that is totally unneccessary on top of that? Well... yeah, you see where I'm going here with this.

I just don't see it achieving it's ultimate goal and if it's not going to achieve the goal it's setting after then there's no reason to have it.
 
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The TO for a tournament I was in yesterday used the 3 extra turns thing, most people seemed to agree that it was a bad idea as players kept forgetting which turn they were on (knowing there's only 3 turns left can cause some extremely focussed & intense gameplay) and it just made games run longer than they needed to.

He didn't use the:
Purity said:
If at the end of the additional 3 turns, a winner has not been determined, the player with greater life points wins that game. If life points are equal, continue play until the first change in life points. Always resolve all effects that are already on the chain before comparing the life points of the players.
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bit, and I think it's just as well as barring both players having the same number of wins this is just stupid and will force the games to go longer than they should and, since the majority of stall decks are burners, will probably only help give them the third round anyway.
The only stall decks I can really see this hurting are the ones reliant on bringing out a specific combo for the match (Exodia, Spirit Board, Last Turn, possibly Wave Motion Cannons) which happens to take time, as opposed to just using stall to defend while you make attacks and snipes under your stall as most burner decks do.
 
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Far and away the people I talked to at nationals LIKED the new end of match proceduare and thought it to be much more fair.

According to Kevin Tewart this will be the end of match procedure used at the world championships.

I think it was designed to keep people from side decking out half a dozen or more burn cards for sudden death and winning immediately.

What surprised a lot of us was that most players haven't figured out it's best to go second in an overtime game so they have the last shot at doing damage.

The one thing that is a bit misleading about how the new policy reads and could easily be overlooked is that if you're in the middle of game 2 and your opponent has one game 1....and your life points are higher after the end of match prodedure during game 2 (life points have not been reduced to 0 yet) you would win the GAME forcing a third game. This is contrary to the previous end of match prodedure where your opponent would win the match because they had won the only complete game.
 
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John Danker said:
Far and away the people I talked to at nationals LIKED the new end of match proceduare and thought it to be much more fair.
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I liked it as well. Once players understand the basic idea of how it works, it won't be as difficult to explain as it was this past weekend.
 
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