Various Questions

[kansashoops]

1. If you use Change of Heart or Enemy Controller to take control of an opponent's monster until the end of the turn, then use Interdimensional Matter Transporter to send the monster out of play until the end of the turn, does the monster return to your side of the field at the end of the turn or to the opponent's? I assume it's yours.

2. After Thousand Eyes Restrict sucks in an opponent's monster, it becomes an equip spell card and moves to your spell/trap card zone. I assume that means that it is treated as a spell card and can be removed with Heavy Storm, MST, etc. But do monster removal cards also work? I thought I read somewhere that they do, and was confused by that.

3. If you use Ceasefire when Thousand Eyes Restrict has an effect monster sucked in, does the equipped monster count as an effect monster?

 

[masterwoo0]

1. If you use Change of Heart or Enemy Controller to take control of an opponent's monster until the end of the turn, then use Interdimensional Matter Transporter to send the monster out of play until the end of the turn, does the monster return to your side of the field at the end of the turn or to the opponent's? I assume it's yours.

2. After Thousand Eyes Restrict sucks in an opponent's monster, it becomes an equip spell card and moves to your spell/trap card zone. I assume that means that it is treated as a spell card and can be removed with Heavy Storm, MST, etc. But do monster removal cards also work? I thought I read somewhere that they do, and was confused by that.

3. If you use Ceasefire when Thousand Eyes Restrict has an effect monster sucked in, does the equipped monster count as an effect monster?

1. The monster would briefly return to your side of the field from IMT's effect, then return to the original Owner because the effect that controlled him was removed (or "reset") when he was removed from play.

2. The monster is no longer a "monster" due to the effect of TER. You hit the nail on the head with "Equip Spell Card". MST, Heavy Storm, Dust Tornado can be used to destroy it.

3. Only monsters in the monster zones of both players fields count towards the effect of Ceasefire. if they are in the Spell/Trap Zone, they are Equip Spell Cards and not counted as monsters.

 

[Dark Ruler Ha Des]

1) If you use Change of Heart or Enemy Controller to take control of an opponent's monster until the end of the turn, then use Interdimensional Matter Transporter to send the monster out of play until the end of the turn, does the monster return to your side of the field at the end of the turn or to the opponent's? I assume it's yours.

It returns to YOUR side of the field, but then returns to your opponent's side of the field.

2) After Thousand Eyes Restrict sucks in an opponent's monster, it becomes an equip spell card and moves to your spell/trap card zone. I assume that means that it is treated as a spell card and can be removed with Heavy Storm, MST, etc. But do monster removal cards also work? I thought I read somewhere that they do, and was confused by that.

When Thousand Eyes takes in a monster, it is treated as an Equip Spell card on your side of the field. And since it is a Spell card, only S/T removal with work against it.

3) If you use Ceasefire when Thousand Eyes Restrict has an effect monster sucked in, does the equipped monster count as an effect monster?

No. Against, it is an Equip Spell card and your opponent will take damage from TER but not the monster it has equipped.



Dark Ruler Ha Des

 

[Nak44]

now i have a question too.
Same scenario as question #1 but with Snatch Steal.Would you keep the monster or will it return?

 

[Dark Ruler Ha Des]

I'm 97.764586575% sure it would remain on your side of the field.



Dark Ruler Ha Des

 

[Digital Jedi]

Once the monster leaves the Snatch Steal is destroyed as it no longer has anything to attach to. The monster would return to your opponents side of the field in that instance, I believe.

 

[kansashoops]

1. Ah, I found the ruling on that. I thought sending it out of play might cancel the effect of Change of Heart, just as sending a normal summoned Fusilier out of play with IMT resets its effect and returns it as a 2800 attacker.

2 and 3. Thanks, that's what I thought.

OK, here's another TER question:

4. If TER sucks in Breaker the Magical Warrior while it has a spell counter on it, is the spell counter destroyed or does it come over too? If it comes over, can it be used to destroy Breaker so that TER can suck in a different monster?

 

[Digital Jedi]

Breaker cannot hold a Spell Counter while he is an Equip Spell Card because his effect only works as a monster.

 

[JOls]

1. Ah, I found the ruling on that. I thought sending it out of play might cancel the effect of Change of Heart, just as sending a normal summoned Fusilier out of play with IMT resets its effect and returns it as a 2800 attacker.

I wonder if the mechanics of that are:

IMT resets the state of the monster in that change of heart/snatch steal no longer has control. But when the monster comes back, it knows who originally summoned it and thus returns to that side of the field. It was not banished and summoned, it just stepped out of our dimension for a while which removed all states that are only linked in our dimension. Meanwhile, a card that is pulled over via change of heart and flipped face down is essentially banished and then re-summoned when it flips face up, so it knows who summoned it. Only when you "remove brainwashing" does the card forget about who summoned it and return to the owners side of the field. Fusilier loses the "decrease by half state" that was attached to it when it is sent to another dimension, allowing it to return full power.

I'm no expert, I'm just looking at a broader picture as to why the rulings are they way they are. What do you think, experts? Is that why the monster returns to the owner even though the state would normally have been broken? At least it's a reasonable explanation. If it did retain the state when it came back, then it becomes inconsistent with other IMT rulings.

 

[masterwoo0]

it knows who originally summoned it and thus returns to that side of the field.

Careful with that statement. Originally Summoned does not accurately describe how the monster came to the field.

Was it "originally" summoned from the controlling players Graveyard, Deck, or Hand?

Or, was it originally summoned from the opponents Graveyard by an effect such as Monster Reborn or Autonomous Action Unit?

If it was summoned from the opponents Graveyard, and later removed from play by IMT, after it came back to the side of the field of the player that activated IMT, it would return AGAIN to the "Original Owner".

 

[kansashoops]

Breaker cannot hold a Spell Counter while he is an Equip Spell Card because his effect only works as a monster.

That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[JOls]

Or, was it originally summoned from the opponents Graveyard by an effect such as Monster Reborn or Autonomous Action Unit?

Yep, an AAU'd monster that is Dimensionholed (a lot like IMT) returns to the owner, that's what the ruling says. That pretty much blows away the logical explanation I had come up with. Does the same thing happen with Monster Reborn of a monster out of the opponent's graveyard? That's a new one, I hadn't heard it.

 

[Raigekick]

Yep, an AAU'd monster that is Dimensionholed (a lot like IMT) returns to the owner, that's what the ruling says. That pretty much blows away the logical explanation I had come up with. Does the same thing happen with Monster Reborn of a monster out of the opponent's graveyard? That's a new one, I hadn't heard it.

The monster brought back by IMT returns to the original owner of that card (as indicated by masterwoo0 earlier). Even if that monster was "Creature Swap"ed, "Change of Heart", "Snatch Steal", "Monster Reborn", ...

 

[masterwoo0]

Same thing would happen because the card returns to the Original Owner since the effect that brought it to the field no longer applies.

Think of it the same way as if you used Compulsory Evacuation Device on it. Does it return to your hand, or the real owners?

Once a monster is removed from play, the only part that is strictly controlled by the effect is what side it goes to.

If you control a monster, and remove it from play, it goes to your side of the field, even though there really isnt a "removed from play" zone. When it is returned, it is always returned to the side it was removed "from", but then control is checked to verify ownership. If you are not the original owner, it returns to them.

 

[Raigekick]

Once a monster is removed from play, the only part that is strictly controlled by the effect is what side it goes to.

And what battle position it was then. (Don't forget )

 

[masterwoo0]

And what battle position it was then. (Don't forget )

Good catch!!

 

[JOls]

So would it be more accurate to say:

IMT resets the state of the monster in that Change of Heart/Snatch Steal no longer has control. But when the monster comes back, it knows who is the owner of the card and thus returns to that side of the field. It was not banished and summoned, it just stepped out of our dimension for a while which removed all states that are only linked in our dimension. Meanwhile, a card that is pulled over via Change of Heart and flipped face down is essentially banished and then re-summoned when it flips face up, so it knows who summoned it. Only when you "Remove Brainwashing" does the card forget about who summoned it and return to the owners side of the field. Fusilier loses the "decrease by half state" that was attached to it when it is sent to another dimension, allowing it to return full power.

Does that fit all situations of creatures removed from play?

What happens to a creature that was Creature Swapped, then attacked by a DMC and sent out of play if somebody then used Dimension Fusion? Who gets to summon that creature, and if it was not the original owner, does it immediately go to the owner's side?

 

[JOls]

Nevermind, Dimension Fusion ruling #6
If you take control of your opponent's monster with "Dimensionhole", and it is removed from play while on your side of the field, the monster is Special Summoned with "Dimension Fusion" to the player's field who controlled the monster when it was removed.

That breaks the logic again. I give up.

...Because Konami Say So!

Edit: Odd, because you can't take control of a creature with Dimensionhole. I suspect they meant if you take control of a creature and then used Dimensionhole on it...

 

[masterwoo0]

Nevermind, Dimension Fusion ruling #6
If you take control of your opponent's monster with "Dimensionhole", and it is removed from play while on your side of the field, the monster is Special Summoned with "Dimension Fusion" to the player's field who controlled the monster when it was removed.

That breaks the logic again. I give up.

...Because Konami Say So!

Edit: Odd, because you can't take control of a creature with Dimensionhole. I suspect they meant if you take control of a creature and then used Dimensionhole on it...

It doesnt state anything different. The monster IS Special Summoned to the side of the player that controlled it when it was removed. But it doesnt stay there.

 

[JOls]

It doesnt state anything different. The monster IS Special Summoned to the side of the player that controlled it when it was removed. But it doesnt stay there.

You'd think they would have finished the thought and said "but then returns to the owner's side" in the ruling if that's what they meant.