Victory Dragon vs. Mausoleum of the Emperor

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Funny though that they said they added it to the rulings of "Mausoleum of the Emperor" only. Good thing we have cross referencing in RONIN.

Oh and as a side note, the list also said you could use a D. Tribed / DNA Surguried (Dragon) "Double Coston" to count as 2 of the 3 Tributes for "Victory Dragon" as well.

Sidebar: At least the ruling matches the "unofficial" translations I saw for "Victory Dragon" rather than the actual text we did get (which was "This card cannot be Normal Summoned except by..."). Not that this part was relevant at all...
 
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densetsu_x said:
Oh and as a side note, the list also said you could use a D. Tribed / DNA Surguried (Dragon) "Double Coston" to count as 2 of the 3 Tributes for "Victory Dragon" as well
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Which seems kind of odd to me. Victory Dragon says to Tribute 3 Dragon-Type monsters. So what if Double Coston would be acting as 2 Tributes? It's still only 1 monster.
 
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Jathro said:
Which seems kind of odd to me. Victory Dragon says to Tribute 3 Dragon-Type monsters. So what if Double Coston would be acting as 2 Tributes? It's still only 1 monster.
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It still counts, just like for moisture creature and gilford the lightning. They have always been able to use a "One Monster, 2 Tribute Effect Monster" for their summon plus they get the effect, so it's no different for Victory Dragon.
 
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densetsu_x said:
Sidebar: At least the ruling matches the "unofficial" translations I saw for "Victory Dragon" rather than the actual text we did get (which was "This card cannot be Normal Summoned except by..."). Not that this part was relevant at all...
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Ah, have we been Wabokued again?

If we go by that, then we can no longer go with the whole Cost Down x 2, or Level Conversion Lab gambits either. Is this what they are trying to say? Blasted texts! The other, non-playable, Victory cards say "This card must be Tribute Summoned by..." that leaves less to contend.
 
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DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
Ah, have we been Wabokued again?

If we go by that, then we can no longer go with the whole Cost Down x 2, or Level Conversion Lab gambits either. Is this what they are trying to say? Blasted texts! The other, non-playable, Victory cards say "This card must be Tribute Summoned by..." that leaves less to contend.
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Why is it that we have a Judge List message that says we are "simplifying text", yet we only fall back on that when we don't like people trying to exploit cards with effects like Linear Acceleration Cannon?

So are we saying that Victory Dragon isnt a simplification of the older text that would normally say the same as the other Match Win Cards? Obviously it must be, since it is ruled the same.

Sometimes, and it is rare, Card Text is EXACT in its meaning, and it can't be worked around, which is all people try to do nowadays. We left "The Age of Chaos" to enter "The Age of Loophole".
 
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I don't understand this ruling unless they are going to change the text of Victory Dragon. If not then the following ruling makes no sense.


A monster Normal Summoned with the effect of "Mausoleum of the Emperor" is NOT Tribute Summoned. So if you pay 1000 Life Points and Normal Summon "Zaborg the Thunder Monarch", its effect will not activate.
 
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blade146 said:
I don't understand this ruling unless they are going to change the text of Victory Dragon. If not then the following ruling makes no sense.


A monster Normal Summoned with the effect of "Mausoleum of the Emperor" is NOT Tribute Summoned. So if you pay 1000 Life Points and Normal Summon "Zaborg the Thunder Monarch", its effect will not activate.
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Why do they need to change the text? What is your reasoning?
 
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Because Victory Dragon's text says nothing about it being normal summoned. Only tribute summoned. If "Mausoleum of the Emperor" can't summon it then victory dragon can't be normal summoned. If this is the case the text needs to be changed or it contradicts the ruling I posted.
 
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Well I just asked the "Cost Down" / "Level Conversion Lab" question to see if they say it will work with those or not. Again, based on what the translations should have been, I'd say "no", but who knows at this point anymore.
 
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blade146 said:
Because Victory Dragon's text says nothing about it being normal summoned. Only tribute summoned. If "Mausoleum of the Emperor" can't summon it then victory dragon can't be normal summoned. If this is the case the text needs to be changed or it contradicts the ruling I posted.
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It doesnt contradict the ruling because the Monarchs dont say that they must be Tribute Summoned. They say, "When this Monsters is Tribute Summoned..." And that doesnt mean it has to be Tribute Summoned in order to be placed on the field, like Victory Dragon. It just means that if you Tribute Summon it, it will get an effect, like Moisture Creature will get an effect if you use 3 monsters instead of 2.

The first incarnation of Chaos Sorcerer, The Rock Spirit, Aqua Spirit, Spirit of Flames, etc... didnt have the statement that they couldnt be Normal Summoned or Tribute Summoned either, but they couldnt, and the Element Spirits lasted much longer with the poor text than Chaos Sorcerer did.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
It doesnt contradict the ruling because the Monarchs dont say that they must be Tribute Summoned. They say, "When this Monsters is Tribute Summoned..." And that doesnt mean it has to be Tribute Summoned in order to be placed on the field, like Victory Dragon. It just means that if you Tribute Summon it, it will get an effect, like Moisture Creature will get an effect if you use 3 monsters instead of 2.
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It doesn't really have to do with the Monarchs. I was talking about the bolded part. Victory dragon doesn't say that it must be tributed summon. Its says "To Tribute Summon this card, you must Tribute 3 Dragon-Type monsters". The only must is that you have 3 dragons to Tribute summon. Nothing about normal summoning on the card.
 
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blade146 said:
It doesn't really have to do with the Monarchs. I was talking about the bolded part. Victory dragon doesn't say that it must be tributed summon. Its says "To Tribute Summon this card, you must Tribute 3 Dragon-Type monsters". The only must is that you have 3 dragons to Tribute summon. Nothing about normal summoning on the card.
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Again, literal text is rare, but it exist, so why does it need to say anything else when we are supposed to be using simplified Text?

If it's telling you that you need 3 specific monsters for a summon, Mausoleum of the Emperor doesnt fit the requirement to make each "1000 life points" paid a different "payment", so it can't be used.

If it was simply a matter of saying that you use 3 monsters, maybe it would have been a different story....
 
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I didn't know we were suppose to use simplified text. Where in a rule book or FAQ does it state this. Shouldn't you be able to play a card game by reading the rule book and the text on the cards. No reading between the lines bull that this game requires.
 
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blade146 said:
I didn't know we were suppose to use simplified text. Where in a rule book or FAQ does it state this. Shouldn't you be able to play a card game by reading the rule book and the text on the cards. No reading between the lines bull that this game requires.
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Excerpt from Judge List post


**Words of Power**

Power of the Duelist has strong new monsters from outer space, but the card text is down to earth.

Many commonly used phrases have been made shorter and simpler to make is easier to read the cards, but they still mean exactly the same thing!

For example, a "Destiny Hero" monster and a monster with "Destiny Hero" in its card name are exactly the same thing, but the first wording is shorter. (It takes less time to read, so you have more time to Duel!)

Here's a chart of some of the changes to help you keep things straight.
 
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I think maybe they tried to "simplify" the phrase "This card must be Tribute Summoned by Tributing..." to "To Tribute Summon this card, you must Tribute..." which is not a simplification, but a convolution and about the same amount of letters all around ;). If they wanted it that first way, they should have said so.
 
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Well, you know how players work now. They dissect every bit of text looking for loopholes.

"Can I choose my Horus LV6 for Creature Swap and keep my opponents monster without swapping my monster?"

"Can I Tribute Summon or Set Chaos Sorcerer?"

"Can I use Mystic Tomato to Special Summon a Fusion Monster?"

"Can Mystic Tomato Summon Relinquished?"


All of these questions come from the "lack" of the text clearly defining what can be summoned and what cannot. When it doesn't say it can't, players try to abuse "why it cannot".
 
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