Victory Dragon vs. Mausoleum of the Emperor

Sort by date Sort by votes
It's been ruled otherwise. It seems Mausoleum of the Emperor looks to see that you're trying to Tribute Summon something, and THEN turns it into a Normal Summon with a Life Points cost instead (but only if it's a regular Tribute Summon, not one with specific limitations). That is, the effect of Mausoleum of the Emperor couldn't be used because it's trying to change how the Tribute Summon works, and Victory Dragon says a Tribute Summon can and must ONLY be done with 3 Dragons (and thus can't be changed into a Life Points Normal Summon).

Actually, if that's the case then you could actually use a couple of Cost Downs to make it a Normal Summon. I know, a long stretch.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Maybe I just read the thread too fast, but the phrase "This card cannot be summoned except by..." doesn't exist. The term is restricted to Special Summon Nomis. To have it worked into a monster that is Normal/Tribute Summoned would seem kind of odd to me. "To Tribute Summon this card, you must Tribute 3 Dragon-Type monsters." would be the only way to correctly phrase it without utilizing the Nomi text.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The issue we have with "Victory Dragon" is we have incorrect text on 'our' version. The Japanese text does state something to the effect that ""Victory Dragon" cannot be Normal Summoned except by Tributing 3 Dragons", or "To Normal Summon this card, you must Tribute Summon 3 Dragons", etc...

My point being, the 'original' text is more clear on the Summoning restriction placed on it, which we did not get for some reason.

The rulings being given match those found in Japan, which support the 'original' text.


It's actually quite simple.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
skey23 said:
The issue we have with "Victory Dragon" is we have incorrect text on 'our' version. The Japanese text does state something to the effect that ""Victory Dragon" cannot be Normal Summoned except by Tributing 3 Dragons", or "To Normal Summon this card, you must Tribute Summon 3 Dragons", etc...

My point being, the 'original' text is more clear on the Summoning restriction placed on it, which we did not get for some reason.

The rulings being given match those found in Japan, which support the 'original' text.


It's actually quite simple.
Click to expand...
Which is to say that the text was simplified to "infer" that it should be "known" that it cannot be Normal Summoned otherwise.

If they couldnt use Mausoleum in Japan, then why would it be any different in the English Game just because the text is different? They've had it much longer than we have, and you would think that they would have had that combo well before we could think of it if it did indeed work.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Well, I found the Mausoleum / Victory Dragon rulings for the OCG and it says the same thing (that it can't be done) but it also gives a "why" (since we all love "why").

- You cannot use effect of [Mausoleum] to Normal Summon the cards (that require you to do something else to sacrifice summon)

Victory Dragon wasn't the only card listed in this category just for the record. Just since it doesn't follow the normal rule of 8 Stars = 2 Tributes, that makes it ineligable for Mausoleum.

Before anyone asks, a) As mentioned earlier in this thread or another one, yes Simorgh, Bird of Divinity is different because of the word IF (they mentioned that too) and b) I didn't find anything to say that if Victory Dragon's levels were lowered enough that it could simply be Normal Summoned. Doesn't mean there is or is not such a ruling. Just saying, I couldn't find one. Feel free to debate that fact.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
densetsu_x said:
I didn't find anything to say that if Victory Dragon's levels were lowered enough that it could simply be Normal Summoned. Doesn't mean there is or is not such a ruling. Just saying, I couldn't find one. Feel free to debate that fact.
Click to expand...
Well, if the original Japanese Text states that it cannot be Normal Summoned other than by Tributing 3 Dragons, then what part of "Cannot be Normal Summoned", would allow it to be Normal Summoned as a Level 4 Monster (unless you would STILL be required to Tribute 3 Monsters, which defeats the purpose...)?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Funny thing with that... the only translation I can find right now is what's on Spikes and Baron... and that almost matches the US version. Annoying since I swear I've seen the other way too.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Ok, I know I wasn't crazy. These are the 2 different translations I've found for Victory Dragon. The first is from Spikes and Baron:

Victory Dragon
Dark/Dragon/8/2400/3000
This card cannot be special summon. You must sacrifice 3 Dragon Type monsters on your field to sacrifice summon this monster. When you successfully bring opponent's lifepoints to 0 as a result of this card's direct attack, the controller of this card wins the match.

And this is from an article about it on Pojo (from early 2004):

Victory Dragon
Dark/Dragon - Level 8 - 2400/3000
Effect: This Monster cannot be Special Summoned. In order to Summon this card, you must Sacrifice 3 Dragon-type Monsters from your Field. If this Monster attacks your opponent directly, and that attack reduces your opponent's LP to 0, you win the Match.

So as I said, the S&B translation is much closer to what we have here as the Official US Text (but leaves open the possibility of Normal Summoning it without Tributes if it is just a Normal Summon and not a Tribute Summon), while Pojo translation pretty much dictates that is has to have the 3 Dragon Tributes to get it on the field no matter what (and thereby eliminating any loopholes).

That's the best I can offer for everyone.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
densetsu_x said:
Ok, I know I wasn't crazy. These are the 2 different translations I've found for Victory Dragon. The first is from Spikes and Baron:

Victory Dragon
Dark/Dragon/8/2400/3000
This card cannot be special summon. You must sacrifice 3 Dragon Type monsters on your field to sacrifice summon this monster. When you successfully bring opponent's lifepoints to 0 as a result of this card's direct attack, the controller of this card wins the match.

And this is from an article about it on Pojo (from early 2004):

Victory Dragon
Dark/Dragon - Level 8 - 2400/3000
Effect: This Monster cannot be Special Summoned. In order to Summon this card, you must Sacrifice 3 Dragon-type Monsters from your Field. If this Monster attacks your opponent directly, and that attack reduces your opponent's LP to 0, you win the Match.

So as I said, the S&B translation is much closer to what we have here as the Official US Text (but leaves open the possibility of Normal Summoning it without Tributes if it is just a Normal Summon and not a Tribute Summon), while Pojo translation pretty much dictates that is has to have the 3 Dragon Tributes to get it on the field no matter what (and thereby eliminating any loopholes).

That's the best I can offer for everyone.
Click to expand...
Well, the fact that it comes from 2 Unofficial Sources, says it all.

This is the text you can find from Ideal_808

This card can not be special summoned. You must sacrifice 3 dragon type monsters from your field in order to sacrifice summon this card. When this card does a direct attack to your opponent's life points and drops it to 0, the controller of this card wins the match.

Three different Translations, all have varying degrees of drafting, but they are all unofficial. So, which one is correct?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
All Japanese translations are Unofficial. And just because of the language, they're probably all correct. After all, they're all not that different. The issue stems from the fact though that those minor wording changes have a major impact on the way cards are played. Just take the "This card can only be Special Summoned by" vs. "This card cannot be Special Summoned except by". (Yes I know the difference, that's not the point). Grammatically they both say something very similar but we all know the difference gameplay wise.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
densetsu_x said:
The issue stems from the fact though that those minor wording changes have a major impact on the way cards are played.
Click to expand...
Exactly. So, at the heart of the issue is, because Tribute Summon is still a Normal Summon, maybe its time for it to become its own category, something like

Tribute Summon
"Similar" to a Normal Summon, a Tribute Summon may ONLY be performed once per turn. A player may not perform a Tribute Summon if a Normal Summon has already been attempted during the current players turn, unless performed by an effect allowing for an additional Normal or Tribute Summon.

That would define each as a separate source of summoning, and cards like Victory Dragon would clearly have a delineation between the two types, making it easier to say, "But it doesnt say you can't Normal Summon it!!!"
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top